Junae Benne: Yeah, you know.

It's interesting because like, I never
shy away from questions, but I've,

I've been on one podcast to talk about
like my Finn experience, but now that

I'm back, I have like, so much to say.

Yes.

So I'm just gonna have to break
that up over the next couple of

episodes, because I feel like it's
already been about 15, 20 minutes.

I think you should,

Maria Beck: yeah,

Junae Benne: yeah, yeah.

Hmm.

Talking about it.

But yes, I, I'll end up doing an
expose at some point, but Maria,

I wanna, like, we don't know each
other, so I can, I can understand also

why you're, like asking questions,
asking how I react to this, right?

Yeah.

Maria Beck: This is my natural,
this is my natural producer way.

Even just both on a personal
level and a professional level.

I'll just ask all the questions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I,

Junae Benne: I love
asking all the questions.

I'd be like, are you getting mad?

Like, are, oh yeah, I just wanna know and.

You are a producer.

Yes.

So does that mean you're also a gamer
or are you just like a really good

producer who's into Oh, in the game?

Oh, no, absolutely,

Maria Beck: absolutely.

A gamer.

I think gamer first, and that's what
led me to, uh, searching for games, jobs

in whatever that was, 20 19, 20 20 ish.

Um, and we know how 2020 was.

Um, so it took a little while.

No, I don't think we know.

We think

Junae Benne: it was like yesterday.

I think.

Yeah.

That needs to be studied

Maria Beck: because it's
a, it's a black box.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

No.

But yes, gamer, gamer first and foremost,
I think like RPGs, Sims, cozy games,

getting into horror a little bit.

Um, kind of all, all,
all games in every game.

Uh, sometimes including sports.

Like I just, like games in general,
like, like Capital G games.

Um, and I. Also like process, how
things happen, how things work.

And I think that was like the
perfect combo for me to become

a producer in the industry.

So it's, it's, it's really fun.

It's a really challenging, uh,
and fun role I've got right now.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

That's really interesting
that you say that.

'cause I, I always think that people
who are gamers, especially from like

a young age and they say RPG, like,
y'all are the real deal because I

couldn't even if I had a chance.

Yes.

Like, you're the elite,
you know what I mean?

Like, there's, oh, I dunno if, if elite is

the,

Maria Beck: I dunno
that, I dunno about that.

Junae Benne: Anyway.

Like, because you gotta think about it.

Um, I'm, I'm gonna say how old I am.

You don't have to, but okay.

I'm 33 and so.

I could have had the chance to play like
a Legend of Zelda or like a final fantasy.

Uh, but I didn't.

Right.

Yeah.

Like I just kind of had, like, I
had the racing game, which I love,

and I had tech in, which I love.

Right?

Yeah.

But as a six, 7-year-old,
that's just butt mashing, right?

Yeah.

That buttoning.

And then the, you know, turning
the controller, I had like a

little bit of, um, motor skills
on the, on the joysticks, like.

Like barely none.

And so thi I'm thinking about it.

I'm like, I would play like Howie's
Funhouse, like I would play computer

games and like print stickers, but
like y'all was in the trenches.

Like y'all was in the trenches.

You know what I mean?

Like, I think saving people,
getting the towers together, like,

Maria Beck: well you say that, but you
know, the past two, uh, Zelda games on

Switch that I've played, it's a whole
lot of running around and like just

seeing if I can fly to the next thing
or like, you know, like breath of the

wild right now and tears of the kingdom.

They've got these little s right?

And you can find, collect those guys.

Well now you've got like crafting
engineering in those games.

So what if you made like a hoverboard
situation and just propelled that?

As far as it could go, it doesn't,
there's no quest, there's no O mission.

It's just running around.

Listen in the game isn't what, it's four.

Junae Benne: Like, it
wouldn't be in there.

Like, you know what I mean?

It's the best thing ever.

It's the best thing ever.

And your, your brain that you were
developed with when you were playing

the games is a bit different now, but
you still keep that same curiosity.

That's that's it as, that's it.

Like me who grew up on the Sandboxy
games, I'm like, why would I,

now I have a problem with being a
completionist because I can't just

enjoy, because if I touch every
quarter of the game, it's not that big.

And usually you can't go over there.

And so I just started with the
RPG when God of War became an RPG.

Yes.

That was the one where I was
like, oh, I can play this with the

other one, especially the JR pgs.

I said, listen here, they're huge.

I'm not, yeah.

About to keep doing this.

Like, this is gonna take hours
and now I'm even more of an adult.

I cannot, I get you on that.

I can, I cannot like, spend this time.

And so, um, it is

Maria Beck: how I, that kind of like
almost overwhelming feeling is how I

feel about MMOs a little bit because
they're just like forever so much.

Yeah.

And I really love, like, I know some
close friends that love their MMOs

and I love watching them play them,
but me, I'm gonna sit over here

on the, on the linear story solo.

Yeah.

Solo side.

That's me.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

I, I get that.

I, but it, it really won't cease
to amaze me though, that like y'all

was really out here like solving
problems, you know, saying that I

wasn't like a smart kid, but like.

I remember picking up, oh,
what game did I pick up?

It was probably Call of Duty.

It was on Xbox 360.

Yeah, it was like 2013.

And I was like, whatcha supposed to do?

No, that's not true.

That's not true.

'cause I had a PlayStation.

Okay.

I had a PlayStation three in college, so I
ended up at PlayStation three in college.

So, okay.

But I would play like Assassin's
Creed and literally my lifelong

friends now, they were helping me.

'cause they're like, what are you doing?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And literally they were
like older brothers.

They were like, just gimme the sticks.

I'm like, no, I

can do it.

I'm gonna figure it out.

But you know, like I

Maria Beck: think I'm the friend,
I'm your friends in this situation.

Yeah.

Where I do have friends where I'm
like, okay, how do I, I want you

to experience it, but how do I,
you need a little bit of help.

Let

Junae Benne: me, let try

with you.

I'm not like, literally like, because
now this, this is, this is a very good

segue into like using walkthroughs.

Like, 'cause I feel like I'm cheating
when I use walkthroughs now, only because

I'm like, no, you need to figure it out.

And I'm such a problem solver.

So it's like.

Why aren't you figuring this out?

But like, if I'm doing something
where I'm like, oh, I kind of

just wanna get through, like
I'll use a walkthrough, like, um,

Maria Beck: what did I use

Junae Benne: it for?

I played, uh, flow.

Do you know?

Flow?

Flow?

Oh, I've heard

Maria Beck: of it, but
I've never played it.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

So it's, it's, it's uh, like Pokemon do
you just gotta catch the different species

and you can unlock species by catching
like there's four or five in a group.

Nice.

And so, you know, I was getting to
the end and I was like, man, I really

just can't find this one thing.

And it was like, it comes out
at night and even at night in

that area, I still had to sit.

It's all already hard.

Like, you know, another like hour or
two and I think it's a kids' game.

And I was like, listen,
I'm not getting it.

You know?

Maria Beck: Um, well, I mean,
kids maybe, maybe they have more

time to really dive into that.

I don't know.

Their

Junae Benne: brain has to work
differently because I tried to play a

Lego game as an adult and they're like,
you're supposed to smash everything.

I was like, why would I do that?

I thought we were just, see, that's me.

Maria Beck: That's me.

Junae Benne: Like I,

they,

Maria Beck: that's the RRP G brain.

You're right.

That's the, you, you found a jar.

You either chuck it or you Yeah.

You just, you pick it up and you keep it.

I don't know.

That's, oh my

Junae Benne: goodness.

I get, I get a little bit scared.

I'd be like, I'm stealing.

I'm like, am I supposed
to steal right now?

Because sometimes I was just going
to games and I'd pick it up and

it'd be like, Hey, you're stealing.

And it would scare me.

I'd be like, ah,

Maria Beck: the classic
Sky Room situation.

Yes.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: What, what's the game?

Star Wars.

Which ones?

I was playing Star Wars Outlaws and Yep.

It was like steal.

And I was like, okay.

And so I think I'm being stealthy,
but as soon as you steal, they

were like, no, we see you.

And I was like, wow.

I was playing in my face right now.

Like, you gotta be careful.

This is not a great feeling.

So, um, yeah, but it's cool.

I think, I think it's cool.

But I, you guys.

You have like a jump on the competition,
so you're like, okay, you know, I can see.

And that has to work with
you being a producer, right?

Like you Yes.

Are able to see that bigger picture
because you've had that for so long.

It's like, I'm currently
making my own game.

So like I am producer and like one of
the programmers asked me something and I

was like, I don't know, just like do it.

I don't know.

And they're like, no,
you have to actually.

And I'm like, I have to what?

Like I have to what?

Like, yeah.

And he was like, okay, lemme
like walk you through it.

Because I told them, I said everyone
on my team, I was like, if you guys

don't mind, like working in the
Discord, not for me to watch you,

but for me to understand the process.

No, it's, I important.

So when you guys are asking me
questions, I can like learn what

I'm supposed to learn and then
give you the jargon that you need.

And so, um, we, we are, I was

Maria Beck: definitely a, a bit of
a, complainer is not the right word.

I was just more of like a. Hey, can we
move this conversation into a channel?

Hey, hey, can we move this
conversation into a channel?

And I think a lot of producers are
like that, and that's part of the

reason why is just 'cause like not
everyone specializes in everything.

Yeah.

So sometimes you gotta know the context.

And context helps.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Definitely.

I'm, I'm context.

Maria Beck: All the time.

Always.

That's, I can't turn that off, which
is like a strength and a weakness.

Junae Benne: Yeah, because you know,
it's really interesting because before

people were talking about neurodivergent,
people just used to be like, are you okay?

And I'd be like, yeah,
you're just not saying

Maria Beck: something.

Are you okay?

Yeah, no, it's you.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Like, because I would ask like,

like I remember this very
specific example and it was, it's

very, it's a very small thing.

Yeah.

But we were in science class and
she was like, take your thermometer.

We had like a jar of dirt.

She was like, take your
thermometer and put it underneath.

Um, put it like underneath the dirt.

And I took it and I literally put
it underneath the glass and she was

like, no, that's not what I meant.

I was like,

I know.

I, I, I know you said the word underneath.

Maria Beck: This is above.

This is

Junae Benne: underneath.

Underneath.

But I just like, when I started
getting into misunderstandings, I

would think about that and I was like,
oh, they said what they meant, but I

filtered it and it means this to me.

And she was like, no,
I meant like put it in.

And I was like, that's the right word.

But that's right.

Not to be a jerk, like
not play with semantics.

So I have to then.

Repeat back what I think
you just said, right?

Like, that's right.

Maria Beck: Yeah.

And not every, like, not every
production process is the same.

Like things are, yes, there's things
that are universal, of course throughout

development, but not everything is,
and like that reaction that you had to

being like I put it underneath Yeah.

Is like a very normal natural reaction.

But like if you take that into a
work se setting, you know, it's

like, okay, well, uh, maybe.

Maybe if we ask a question or maybe
we're like, Hmm, hold on and talk more.

Yeah.

Then it doesn't have to be so either
frustrating, like sometimes it just

gets frustrating or just like, you
know, you can kind of figure it out

together and becomes more collaborative.

So,

Junae Benne: yeah, and I, in the dirt, I
like to see how people are in the dirt.

I, I, I need to like, put that in
the dirt on a pin or something.

They're divergence because in, in,
on, on, in, maybe you could change

the pin to on to in, does the

Maria Beck: thermometer
need to touch the dirt or

Junae Benne: no, like yes or no?

Like, yeah, like, should I
put it up to 50 or like seven?

Like which line?

That's it, you know?

That's it because that's,
that's another part of it.

I really like to, I really like to.

Watch how you do it or ask you
how you do it, and not to copy

you, but to be like, but if I get
to the result, then that's fine.

Like, that's it.

What's your KP i's like, tell me your KPI.

That's it.

That's it.

Yes.

And then I can just do it.

And it doesn't matter if I throw the dirt
up in the air and then it lands on the

th like, it doesn't matter, you know?

I could just get to it.

And so that's all.

And I, I, I thank God that I am
like a journalist by trade, because

then I get to ask those questions.

Yes.

And I get to be curious, and
then I can understand what, yes.

Like questions need to be asked so
people can make it clear to me that's it.

Um, you know, and so like, is that a
part of like, how, first of all, we

we're, we're getting Well, there's so
many branches to like this conversation.

Yeah, I know.

And I, I wanna touch all of them.

Um, but they're on the same timeline,
so we're gonna work with it.

But like, like, you know.

How does that work?

Because you don't just work like
you guys aren't, um, the singular

company, like making a different game.

Like you're not a UBIs soft,
you're not, you know, a red that's,

um, lyx like, or Linux know lys.

You're not like red Links like you're
helping all these other people.

So you're talking about the process
is different, like, that's right.

How are you able to meet
what people are asking you?

Like, how are you able to do, and you
know, clients everywhere are the same.

They don't know if they're asking
for, or they have a misunderstanding,

delusions of grandeur because they're
very excited about their product.

Yeah.

Um, so how are you able to like
communicate like, you know, um.

Not like set expectation.

'cause you can be like,
yeah, we can do that.

However, this is what it looks like.

Like how are you able to do that?

And what are some skills, skills
that led up to you doing that?

Maria Beck: That's got, that's got layers.

Layers to that one.

Yeah.

Um, there's a lot of different
ways I think that we do that.

And I'm gonna say we a lot, um, but
I think it kind of goes, the, the

creative part kind of goes in hand,
hand in hand with the production part.

And that's like a larger
game development topic.

But at least for us at Sweet Baby,
you know, um, the first thing

that happens is someone comes to
us with a need or a want, right?

They're like, okay, well
this is what it is right now.

This is what the game looks like.

This is where we are in production.

You know, like a typical
production timeline for a game.

Um, and then they're like,
this is what we want, and.

Sometimes they're even a step
ahead and they're like, this is

what we thought we want and we
don't actually know what we want.

And that's also totally fine.

That's kind of normal.

Yeah.

Um, and so after that, it's a lot
of, it's a lot of asking questions.

It's a lot of listening.

Um, and it's a lot of
like collective thinking.

I think at some point, um, we just kind
of all get on the same page with whatever

the client has in terms of documentation.

And then we talk over what the needs were
from the client and that what we think

we, what we actually think the needs are.

And then, yeah, ki sometimes it's, we mul,
we gotta mold those two together because

we can't just do what we think you need.

That's not, that's not
how that works either.

Um, but it's usually like,
alright, you have to look at.

The market, whatever this genre, this
game exists in already the context

of how this game is being built,
what other studios or publishers or

developers are involved in the project.

And that's kind of where I come in.

'cause that's a lot of
production conversations and

then the actual creative needs.

And then we go in and we just, it's just
a lot, it's a lot of talking and it's a

lot of thinking and strategizing about
what that need is before we start, like

producing documents or script writing
or providing a character outline.

Junae Benne: So they can't even
come and talk to you until they

know, like an outline they of

Maria Beck: what they

Junae Benne: want?

Or can they be like, no,

Maria Beck: as in no.

So sorry.

We, we create those things.

Yeah, we, we usually get, you know,
like an introduction and then we.

Talk and absorb first.

Okay.

Because usually they're coming,
they already have something.

Okay.

I don't think there's really,
it's pretty rare for them to

say like, we've got no story.

Because, uh, even if your game's not a
narrative game, you've got a world, you've

got game mechanics, you've got characters.

That's already some story.

Where did those things come from?

And so that's like, that's, that's the
tasty part for me, is like, okay, cool.

Tell me more about what you wanna convey.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Maria Beck: Um, and why and how.

And then we get into that together.

Um, and then we say, okay, well
based on what you wanna convey, these

are the ways you could do it, or
these are the ways you could do it.

And it's an evolving conversation.

'cause that's kind of like the,
the magic, if you will, the arcane

science of games is, you know, like
gameplay, game design, all of the other

disciplines, they gotta work together.

To make sure that the story you're
telling is hitting all the points

and making the player feel what you
want them to feel at any given time.

And that's, that's like, that's takes
time and it takes a lot of talking and

it takes a lot of like questions and
pushback and kind of debating on things.

And, um, then you get into
the writing of it all.

Oh,

Junae Benne: okay.

Maria Beck: Yeah.

Junae Benne: That's really cool.

Yeah.

Uh, I asked about the, like what are
the prerequisites that they have to

have becau before they come to you?

Yeah.

While I was in Finland, I, I was
like looking into like starting a

business and yeah, they were like,
your client should know what they want.

And I was like, no, I think
that's my job to have the idea.

And they were like, well, no,
they should have like an idea so

that you can build on that idea.

So

Maria Beck: yes.

Yeah, the more, the more information
that you have and the more you know

what you want to do, always the better.

I think even just outside of like.

Working with clients and
working with other studios.

Um, you know, I've just come to learn
that, uh, the more intentional you are,

um, if you've got a direction that you
wanna go, like let's say for example,

you wanna make, I don't know, a love
story, or you wanna make, you know, a

story about a specific type of conflict
between one type of character and another

type of character, um, the why's and
the how's, and, you know, all of those

questions, I think the more you know.

Uh, even if you don't know if that's
the right choice to make, the more you

know, and the more context you give us,
the more we're able to go, okay, well

this is why they want these things.

There might be a different way to
actually do this or execute on this.

And that's kind of our, our superpower
a little bit because we've been able

to kind of come together, have a
collective of people at Sweet Baby that

have different perspectives, different
work experiences, um, and like all

sorts of different skills that can kind
of like, think about story and how to

tell a story in a game differently.

And that's, that's
something that can be rare.

'cause on some projects it's
just one writer or it's just

like a small team of people.

Um, and so that's, I think the,
the need or the, the benefit

of working with us at least.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Okay.

Yeah, that's really good.

That's really good.

So you said you just
joined three years ago.

Maria Beck: That's right.

Junae Benne: Which is a blanket
of an a blink of an eye.

Yes.

I can only imagine.

Like, did you have to count
and be like, wait, that was 20.

Yeah.

Maria Beck: When, when exactly was that?

Yes.

It feels, time doesn't feel real anymore.

No.

The pandemic of really,
I'm not being an adult.

Junae Benne: Maybe it's being an adult,
like the Pan, like and the pandemic,

but I don't like, it could be Friday.

I don't know.

Like, who

Maria Beck: knows?

No, it definitely doesn't
feel like Friday yet.

Okay.

I for sure it doesn't
feel like Friday yet.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Facts.

Facts.

I think it, yesterday I was watching
like Bob's burgers and I was like, ha.

Like, oh, you go like,

I didn't have any worries.

I was like, this is great.

And then I was like, oh yeah,
you gotta get out tomorrow.

Maria Beck: Bob's Burgers
is the best to do that one.

Bobs

Junae Benne: Burger.

Bob, Linda Louise.

Maria Beck: I know if you're
looking They were, I was, I was

just, I just put Bob's burgers on
while I was packing for my trip.

Like, I just like to put that on.

It's like it's a get done
show and do some stuff.

Exactly.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Yeah.

When I, when I was packing to Lee Finland,
it was Bobs Burgers for like a week.

Like I was like episode one on,
like, I just, I it's a get done show.

Like some shows you're like, oh, I'm gonna
sit down and kind of just like, relax.

That's not Bob's workers
'cause it's so energetic.

It's so funny.

It's fantastic.

Like, you know, they're moving,
they're going very fast.

Um, yes.

Yeah.

Not sponsored by Bob's

Maria Beck: Burgers, but
looking, looking for it soon.

Yeah.

I mean, they're great.

Yeah.

We, we love them.

Junae Benne: We love 'em.

I have the cookbook.

I, I started making burgers from
the cookbook and then like post,

like I, I love Bob's burgers.

Like I did a, a

Maria Beck: presentation in university
that was Bob's Burgers themed.

It was like the, it wasn't even like,
the content wasn't even related to Buzz.

Had to, I just wanted to.

I knew everyone would love it.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

You know, and, and you we're talking
about your time being a blink of an

eye, but like, to me, burgers came out
like last week, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's been out this year.

Like it's still really good.

The story.

Yes.

I haven't gotten tired of it.

And even sometimes I watch it and I'm
like, I don't even remember this episode.

Like, yeah's like, lemme go back
it's and wa and watch like this

season or that season again.

It's great.

What, what's one of your
favorite jingles from the show?

Maria Beck: Oh, no, you're
putting me on the spot.

I don't know.

See, I'm terrible at, uh,
lyrics and names Okay.

Of anything.

Okay.

But I can do visuals.

Okay.

That's, that's my thing.

Okay.

I'm way more visual.

Uh, okay.

But.

God, I, you know what we went through,
my family and I went through, uh, some

of the Christmas episodes recently.

Absolutely.

Um, and I don't remember, I remember
they lost their Christmas tree that

they were bringing to the Yeah, yeah.

To like the cabin or something.

Yeah.

And that is maybe not my
favorite, but is top of mind.

Uh, yeah.

I don't I don't have a
title for you though.

I'm sorry.

Junae Benne: Mine is burgers and fries.

Oh.

Oh, that's a classic.

Burgers and fries.

A classic.

I gonna tell you a, a lot's a Yeah.

And it was my ringtone and my friend
was like, can you cut that off?

I was like, no, no.

I was living my best life.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I really like, that's good.

Breakfasts and fries and that's good.

You know, anything.

That's good.

Jean produces a banger.

Right?

Strongly agree.

Anything Jean produces Absolutely.

Strongly agree.

So, yeah.

Whoa, whoa.

Slow down.

Janae.

We almost don't have time to tell the
people about the sponsor today, which

is the pink on the seat gaming chair
review that is posted up on my channel.

I reviewed this chair over like
a year ago, probably about three.

All right.

And honestly, it was one of my
favorite chairs with the pink color

pop and it being 25% bigger than
the jungle on de seat gaming chair.

If you don't know what these are after
the episode, go to the link into, in the

description, to check out the review.

Not only is there a video review, there's
also a written review on Tom's hardware.

All right, Janae, back to you.

What were you doing before
Sweet Baby Inc. You what?

What

Maria Beck: led?

It's a good question.

I was kind of all over the place.

I, uh, did project management.

Uh, just generally that's, that's
the theme, which kind of makes

sense now that I'm a producer.

Um, I was working in student affairs.

I got my, one of, like, my major.

Jobs, you do retail part-time,
normal, normal stuff.

Uh, but then I was working in student
affairs as like a community advisor.

Um, so I, that was my first experiencing,
I was first, first experience

managing like a hundred person team.

With a couple other people.

Uh, and I was like, you
know, like early twenties.

So that was like a, it was, it was like a
pillar I would say in terms of like, just

learning how to organize a team, learning
how to document things and make it like

accessible to like, okay, this is what,
what we need to do and why we need to

do it, and then get everybody on board.

Like that kind of thing.

I, I, I saw quickly, I was like,
oh, I like this stuff, you know?

And, um, after that, uh, I actually worked
in the fitness industry briefly and did

kind of a similar thing where it was
like kind of admin, project management,

kind of helping to run operations stuff.

Let, let's pause right

Junae Benne: here
because I have questions.

I do.

You, do you, I dunno a lot about the
fitness industry besides, you know,

what people kind of portray and like,
I think if there's anything involving

human bodies, it's gonna get weird.

It's gonna get like, yep.

Unpleasant.

So like, is that, yeah.

Maria Beck: Yes.

Uh, I, it was, it was a strange,
felt like a strange paradox

because I, you know, even if I'm
speaking from personal experience,

God, you go, God, you go honey,

Junae Benne: go.

Did dog your dog do something?

She's built like a tank and
I'm trying to move her and

she, she's literally 80% head.

Is this the dog?

Maria Beck: This is what, who
you brought with you to Finland.

Oh my God, I love pit bulls.

Yeah, I think you're the cutest.

Yeah.

I'll, I'll

Junae Benne: show you to her
when we're Yeah, you got it.

But like, she was just right up
under me and I was like, okay, go.

Like, at first I was like, nudging her.

Then I had to put

my arm.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Strong boy.

She's strong.

Maria Beck: I'm sorry.

It's all good.

Um, yeah, the, the.

It was a weird para.

It was like a weird paradoxical feeling.

I, I definitely was a gym rat myself.

And I say it was 'cause the
pandemic really changed my lifestyle

and I think for the better.

Like I think I, I needed to slow down.

You think you, you're getting
carried away and I'm glad.

Yeah, exactly.

Throwing protein shake, that's it.

Right?

It was, and and that's the thing
is like, I was definitely my

strongest and my fittest, but I
was also so critical of myself.

Yeah.

And trying to maintain all of that.

And so I think that's the kind
of catch 22 is like, there are

lots of good people that I met
in the fitness, fitness industry.

Um, but there's also lots of.

Toxic things about the fitness industry
and you know, like it is, it's tough

to see people talk to them, talk
to talk to themselves the way I was

talking to myself and like being so
strict and like, uh, life is short.

Like let, like life is short.

Eat more than, than that.

Please, Maria, pass Maria.

And also like being the most fit you can
possibly be, maybe not, is like the goal

you need to maintain all the time, right?

Like there's, there's
mental health to consider.

There's like community and support
and going out and going to dinner

and eating terrible, terrible
food with your best friends.

Like stuff like that's also
important in your life.

So, uh, how could

Junae Benne: that Yeah.

Not mesh with your culture like we have.

Yeah.

A very.

Food-centric culture or
like, it's a very part of us.

Oh yeah.

And we love it.

And so, oh

Maria Beck: yeah.

Junae Benne: If you were like restricting
yourself and you are still around family

where they're like, what are you doing?

Maria Beck: Right.

I think that's the thing.

It was a time in my life where I
wasn't around family that much.

Ah-huh.

Um, and like I was away.

Like I've been, I've been away from
home for a long time and, um, I

kept in contact with my family for
the most part online when I can.

And so I was kind of on, I was kind
of on my own and I was kind of like.

Trying to figure out what was the
easiest way and fastest way to cook a

meal as you do, you know, like as you
do in your early twenties and onward.

Because sometimes eating

Junae Benne: is overwhelming, you know?

Wow.

Like at this point in my life,
I romanticize every meal.

So like I make sure I do eat like
literally, like I have like grapes.

I have like, like, you know, just
something like at every meal.

So I'm like, oh wow, this is like
really pretty and I wanted to eat it.

Otherwise, I'm like, what do you

mean?

What am I eating for dinner?

I ate yesterday.

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Maria Beck: Well, especially,
I don't know, I don't know

if this is true for you too.

Like my Caribbean family are grazers,
like the whole family snacks all the time.

Yeah.

Like, we'll do a couple like, yeah,
sure, we'll definitely do meals.

Yeah.

But I got so much in the habit
of grazing that I never felt

hungry and I never felt full.

And that was a easy, that was easy to,
I think, undereat at the time, you know?

So.

That's it.

Yeah.

You know, we got through that.

That's okay.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Good, good, good, good, good.

Thank you for sharing that.

'cause you didn't have to.

Oh, absolutely.

And I definitely asked ly, but it's a
thing, like, it's really weird how like,

food can become like a weird thing.

Like no matter what you're doing mm-hmm.

You're trying to be fit or you
know, you're doing some caloric

diet or, or you know, and I think
it's just important because you,

you can not even realize like, yes.

I think when I was in Finland, like I
would just be on the phone with my friend.

I'm like, I'm hungry.

And she'd be like, girl, why?

And I'm like, what do you

mean why?

Like, what do you say?

What do you say to why?

Like, what do you say to like, why?

Like, you're hungry.

That's just a thing that happens.

What do you mean?

Yeah.

Like, you know, and so she'd be
like, so what are you gonna eat?

I'd be like, I don't know.

I guess I'm just like, wait till dinner.

And she's like.

If I don't have a snack, eat
something like right now.

And so like now I have to have
like a lunch or, or something else,

which is what I want it to be.

But I just, yeah,
adjusting to life is rough.

Like Yeah.

You know, you went from doing
something, um, in like education,

like a community stuff to like, you
know, doing the fitness thing and,

and you really are your environment.

Like you really are
your environment truly.

And so, you know, and you wanna be the
best, you wanna surround yourself with

people who are like better than you.

So then you're doing these things.

Yes.

And you're like, well,
that's not working for me.

It's probably not even working
for them, but like, that's

really not working for me.

Yes,

Maria Beck: exactly.

Yep.

And then the jump into games wasn't,
it's not much, it's not much of a

story, it's just that 2020 happened.

Lot of hiring freezes happened.

Yeah.

And I was job searching.

I think for a whole year
stressed out on my mind.

Uh, and that's when I started living
with family, because that's kind

of what you have to do sometimes.

Um, I had a few existing con like contacts
and connections in games, and so they were

like, oh, we'll go talk to this person.

Go talk to this person.

And eventually that led me to Kim at
Sweet Baby, and the timing was right

and they were looking for more people.

Um, and then I joined, I joined as
like a, a production coordinator,

a communications coordinator
type deal for like three months.

And then I quickly was like right
into production and that was great.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

That's amazing.

So like during the hiring process,
they weren't like, wow, why don't you

have 12 years of producing experience?

It was actually like reasonable because
how many years in total do you have

with like producing, project managing?

Maria Beck: Yeah.

If, if we're counting project
management, that's, oh god.

Uh, like it's not, it's not
an amazing number, but it's

like six or seven ish, right?

Yeah.

Um, so that was like your thing.

It's not.

Yeah.

Yes.

Because it's not game specific.

That's, that was the only caveat,
and I think that's why I eased into

the role and we started on like
smaller indie projects that were

like just more manageable in general.

And then we got to some of those
bigger things most recently.

Wow.

Who would've

Junae Benne: thought that they
actually wanted to have you grow Yes.

And teach you the skills that
you did Well and give a bit of a

Maria Beck: chance.

And now we're here.

Yeah.

It turns out that that works.

Yeah.

That works.

Junae Benne: Yeah, they'd be walling.

They'd be walling out here
like for no money too.

Like how you going?

You have to pick a struggle, right?

Like, isn't that what we tell people?

Yeah.

Pick a struggle and they're like,
oh, we actually want you to have

all of this, but it's a junior role.

And it's like, yes, either
way I still have to learn.

Like it's, you want me to do

Maria Beck: that?

Doesn't pay rent in a city
that someone lives in?

And what do you like?

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

You know?

Cool.

Junae Benne: Okay.

Yeah.

So you got into the gaming industry when
a lot of people were, uh, experiencing

the, the downward of this, uh, chart.

I think

Maria Beck: it was just
before, just before.

I think before it was like,
let's say six months before.

And I think that's, that's
also like speaks to.

How strange it feels to, to have jumped
into the industry now of all times.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, there was definitely
like, there were more hires after me,

um, and I think everyone was still
in a good mood for a little while.

Okay.

Yeah.

What was it like

Junae Benne: to work with Sweet Baby Inc.

At a time where, um, the industry was kind
of going through this overturn and uh,

this release of like really good talent?

Like, were you ever like nervous
or, you know, did you see like

a slow down on like projects?

I don't know if you can talk
about that, but, um, yeah.

Yeah.

What did that look like
and how did it feel?

Maria Beck: Yeah.

Um, it was a good, I wanna say it
was, you know, I said six months

earlier, I wanna say like six
months to a year of like a plateau.

So I didn't, at least I could get my
bearings first and like really better

understand different games processes
and different like development styles,

um, before any of that kind of happened.

Uh, I think the first news of the layoffs.

Yeah, I, I am trying to think
back about how I felt and

how everyone felt around me.

I'm kind of a, kind of an
anxious person myself, generally.

Like, I like to, I, I am much, to me,
being a producer, I like to plan a

lot and I like to think ahead a lot.

And so as soon as I got the inkling of
like, oh my God, you know, this company

did this or this did this layoffs, I
think people were not totally surprised.

'cause that's not totally new
to the tech industry like that.

This ha this has happened
before in, in other ways.

Yeah.

Um, but I think what was different
about this time around and it was

like my, I'm just, I'm just in it.

I'm just kind of starting, um.

Was everyone talking about just
it being unprecedented or it being

like, okay, well yeah, one or two,
or like, you know, a couple months

of this news, but it just kept going.

And I think that really tipped me off to
being like, okay, well it's, that's, hmm.

I don't know how to feel about that yet.

And it was a, it was a kind of a low
level amount of unease for a while.

Yeah.

And then absolutely.

I think later on as we have now
done, what is that, three years?

Two.

Two, it's two years.

I said a year.

Three, two years of like layoff
after layoff, after this news.

After.

Oh, it's someone you know now, or it's
a mutual friend or it's a, oh, you

know, this person has done something
amazing on this other game that

you love and now this has happened.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Maria Beck: That.

That hit it.

I think that hits
everybody no matter what.

And um, I think it just got, I don't
think it has got easier, but it got more.

Comfortable to just talk about
that across studios, across our

ongoing collaborations with clients.

It was just like, it's commonplace to
talk about it and, um, it just, it kind

of comes out like, I don't think I can
speak to like specific client experiences,

but it comes out in just like, yep,
for this thing we're still looking for

funding, so that might impact this.

Or like, oh, we do wanna do this
kind of work, or we wanna move

forward on this part, but we
are looking for funding or, Hmm.

Actually we've had, uh, some sort
of merge or like, oh, there is this

team that is no longer there, and
so we need to reshuffle everything.

And so you can kind of get a sense,
uh, just overall you get that, you

get that like sixth sense of like,
oh yeah, this is, this is a bit of a

special time in the industry right now.

Junae Benne: Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I I can imagine.

'cause you're like, if they're, if
they're great and I just got here

what I'm gonna be, what's happening.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

I think, I think that's really good.

Um, yeah, I think it's really good that
you have that experience because a lot

of people don't, and I think one of my
favorite things about talking to people

is everyone's experience is different.

Yes.

Um, you know, I, I'm not, uh, discounting
like the anxiousness of the situation.

Oh yeah.

Um, you know, I have also.

Heard like these like dredged, deep
trenched stories of like, and you know,

people are still trying to, to do it and
like, you know, yeah, it's really nice.

It's just really nice that there are,
there, there are two sides because you

could be like, well this person went
through it and they came out better.

And you know, and it's Maria's going
through it and like, you know, especially

with people can relate with anxiety,
like, oh yeah, it didn't happen to you.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So maybe, maybe they can calm down, like
Yeah, it's okay to just take a breath.

And so, um, yes, I
really like hearing that.

I really like hearing that, that.

And a part

Maria Beck: of it is, like, for me,
I always try and tell myself like,

you can have the emotions about it.

Absolutely.

Right?

Absolutely.

Like, that's, that's normal and
everyone's gonna get stressed.

Uh, yeah.

But then what are you gonna do about it?

And the answer is, we gotta keep working.

You know, like we gotta keep doing
what we're doing and like, we have to

keep talking with people and finding
ways for, you know, skilled game devs

to keep doing what they wanna do.

'cause that is, that is I think
why the games industry is so great.

And why.

People love to play games is because those
game devs really, really, really care.

And that's, that's, that's partially
why I became a producer because I

want to help those game devs make
that experience for other people.

All those games that I played in my
childhood, especially RPGs, all of

that came from game devs who care,
uh, and who are really thinking about

this stuff and doing a lot of work.

So I wanted to support that.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Maria, what are
your technical skills like?

What, what does it take?

Like what is something that had to
be a producer, you had to work for

a project manager and producer?

Like what is your technical skill?

Maria Beck: Yeah.

Uh, there's, there's a list.

It's a, it's a, I keep seeing my list and
being like, oh, I need to add this to it.

I need to add this to it.

But yeah, I think for me, one of
my strengths is just being able to

adapt to whatever the heck anyone
else needs to use at that time.

So before games, it was just Excel sheets.

It was looking at numbers, it was
tracking dates, it was making sure things

lined up and then communicating that
all the way through different teams.

Um, and so.

The technical skills come down to
like, okay, do you know how to use this

piece of software and how accessible
is it to everyone else on that team?

And I think, you know, a lot
of that is lies in soft skills

that are sometimes hard to.

Hmm.

It, it's, it's kind of hard to describe
almost like it is a mixture of knowing

software and being able, even if you
don't know the software very well, it,

you know, you need to be able to go
into something, create something that

makes sense and is easy to describe
to someone else, and then be able to

kind of relay that back after approval.

And I think that's kind of a vague, I
don't know if I'm actually answering

your question, but it, it's, I
think you are answering the question

Junae Benne: Yeah.

In an important way that is not like
I'm an artist and I'm a producer.

I am a coder and I'm a producer, I'm a
game design person and I'm a producer.

Um, because that can be.

Uh, a bit, uh, taunting to be like, oh,
well, I, like I could do this great thing.

But then it's like, I
decided, decided to produce.

And like you're using like your
skills of organization, you're using

your skills of research, you know?

That's right.

And, and like understanding people and
what the people need and, you know,

accessibility and things like that.

That's it to, uh, carve a path
for yourself and, and, yeah.

A space where everyone feels like
they need to be so technical.

Maria Beck: Yes.

I think, I think for me as well, like
as you're talking about that, one

of the things that stand stands out
to me is, uh, empathy and emotions.

Empathy.

Empathy.

Put your face in front of me.

Put your

Junae Benne: self in front of me.

It's from adventure time.

I don't remember.

Yeah,

Maria Beck: I, you know what?

I feel guilty saying this out loud.

Uh, but I've only watched
like many episodes when it's

been playing at a friend's.

I need to, I need to watch it.

My first

Junae Benne: thought was throw tomatoes.

But then I know that we are evolved women.

Maria Beck: I, we don't,

Junae Benne: we don't, you

Maria Beck: know, it's okay.

I would let it happen and I would
understand and then we would move forward.

That's all good.

It's good.

But like,

Junae Benne: you know, also, maybe
if you watched it now you'd be

like, uh, like I started watching
it like in college, like, right.

Yeah.

And then it evolved into
like this crazy story.

'cause you know, at first it was just
kind of like, um, it wasn't Ken and not.

At all.

But then it was just like, Hey,
remember that random thing you never

thought we'd like look at again.

It's actually a big deal.

Like

Maria Beck: we'll bring it back.

Yeah.

So it

Junae Benne: was good.

I it has a place in my heart definitely.

But yeah, I have to watch it.

What about regular show?

Did you watch your regular show?

Oh,

Maria Beck: I'm ke I'm
like slowly catching.

I'm okay.

I'm really bad at shows and movies.

No, that's cool.

Junae Benne: So

what's like,

Maria Beck: it's kind so
like, kind of your thing

Junae Benne: is games,

Maria Beck: like that's your thing.

Okay.

Like, I will play hours and hours.

Well, 'cause it's RPGs, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's, that's where I
sink a lot of my time into.

And I, if I really like a story or
a a game, I'll spend hours in it.

So that's, yeah.

I find

Junae Benne: it easier
to watch shows and anime.

Yeah.

Dubbed when I'm working
because I can get through it.

I can get through like a season.

Uh, yes.

But I also think that's the
being an entrepreneur, right?

Because I gotta.

Podcast.

This podcast, and then I gotta edit this
podcast, podcast, and then I gotta edit

it for social, then I gotta use this.

You got stuff to do.

So it's like, and I don't wanna
watch someone play a certain game

because I want to like know what
that feels like for other things.

I'm like, yeah, you know, that's, see

Maria Beck: whatever.

I'm kind of the opposite.

I know if there's a game that I know
I can't play for whatever reason,

might be too stressful for me to play.

Yeah.

Or I'm just like, you know what?

There are so many games out there.

I don't know if I'll, I,
I can't play them all.

I just literally can't play them all.

I, I like having, it's kind of
like having a buddy, you know?

Like it's that parasocial relationship.

Oh, that's where you like see them.

Yeah.

React.

And I like, don't reacting.

I don't games that well

Junae Benne: for someone to be.

They would, they would rage at me.

You know, like my walkthrough is
not the one you would wanna watch.

Like that's the one you watched live and
you're like, you just had to be there.

Like, don't watch the vibe.

Maria Beck: Empathy.

I might just be like, you
know, she's gonna get it.

I'll go do my other toys
here and check back.

And she might've, she'll she'll get it.

I know.

She'll get it.

Yeah.

So

Junae Benne: I've been stuck on
stuff for like two streams and I'm

like, all right, I'm just gonna
end the stream, you guys, but

just figure

it out.

Like

wave the white flag.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This has

been, you know, amazing.

Um,

yeah, I, I think that's really great
though, because, uh, I love the

last part that you said, because.

I'm thinking, I'm like, okay,
if Maria's thing is games, like

that's what you're gonna do.

Yeah.

Um, then like, you know,
how caught up are you?

Like, what's, what's, you know,
all the games that you're playing

in and we have this in society,
you know, over consumption.

That doesn't stop just
because it's gaming.

And like back in the day I used
to get three games at once.

Like I would walk in a GameStop and I'd
be like, okay, give me like my quick

game that I could like, you know, like,
like today it would be something like

Fall guys, like I'd be like, let me play
Fall guys for 20 minutes to get my mind

focused and then I'm gonna start working.

Yeah.

And then I would be like, okay, then I
would get like my longer game and then

I would get my like multiplayer game.

Right.

Like that was like, you know, the thing.

And like even then I was, I was
kind of doing a lot, but I would

have time to play them too.

But different also a
different time in my life.

So, yes.

Um, it's just very interesting that
you're like, I will watch someone

else like play that game because.

Especially if you're into RPGs.

I can, yeah.

I like, in my head, I'm like,
she's still on Gawa Rack Rock.

Doing all of doing, doing all of
the stuff, and maybe then you'll be

at Balder's Gate, but when we talk
again in three years, you'll have

just finished Balder's Gate and then
she's probably still on Persona five

and then the, you know what I mean?

Well,

Maria Beck: I don't know how you know
all this information right now, but

I have literally started
Boulders Gate like a month ago.

Yeah.

And I, yeah, yeah.

Love it.

Yeah.

And you'll see me in five years.

It's fine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hey, you know.

Junae Benne: But that's
your money's worth, right?

Like, like it's the best.

I haven't played Spider-Man.

'cause I didn't want people to ruin it for
me because people are so hype about it.

Yeah.

And that came out like 2017.

I'm just waiting.

I'm just waiting.

Take your time.

I wanna be a web slinger so
bad, like Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love Spider-Man.

I really hope they do a good
job with the Black Panther one,

because I really want the same.

I'm excited, you know, like roomy feeling
of just being able to just, you know, um,

so I haven't played Spider-Man yet because
I'm like, y'all were so hype about it.

That like you were almost doing too much.

And this isn't to say that they can't
be hype about it, but I was like,

I don't know how much I could take.

I don't know if I could play Spider-Man,
talk Spider-Man and watch Spider-Man.

And um, I feel like one of
the movies had came out then.

Yeah, the one, uh, maybe that was
a little bit after The Stacey one,

but, uh, with Andrew Garfield.

Yeah.

But you know, I was like, I
can't have that much Spider-Man.

'cause then I, I, I don't wanna run
the risk of not liking something.

That's it.

I will take time away.

So I, I like it.

And so.

Now

Maria Beck: I think there's a, I think
there's a state of mind you need to

be in for certain RPGs, and I think
it's totally okay to just wait until

and if it, if it's like years later.

I don't think that's, yeah, that's,
that's, you gotta, you gotta make

sure that you can enjoy the game
you want to as much as possible.

Yeah.

That's, that's the main thing.

Yeah, that's the main thing.

That's

Junae Benne: how I feel about
Star Wars outlaws because

Maria Beck: yeah.

Junae Benne: Only a couple of years
ago did I watch like Star Wars from

the Rudy to the 2D, and I'm barely at
the 2D 'cause I was like, wait, yeah.

Why is this happening now?

Y'all want me to watch Clone War?

Like now you want me to watch?

Yeah, it's lot.

Watch a

TV show.

It's, you know, like, that's a lot.

Gimme

the Cliff notes.

But I had, I do have like
a liking for Star Wars.

Like if there's a Star Wars movie,
I'm like, yeah, I'll watch it.

Like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm happy.

I can't say excited 'cause I know them.

Soros fans are real, they're really
real about Gleep and Beef bp.

Okay.

They're very, they're
very serious about them.

And I dunno who they're,
you know, um, so well they,

Maria Beck: one of them is my
older brother, so I get, I'm a

little bit, I'm a little bit lucky
because I get Spark notes from him.

Yeah.

And that is so helpful because
some fandom, it such a big

Junae Benne: world,

Maria Beck: some fandoms.

I'm too late.

It's just too late to join.

But I like it, but I don't, I
just don't like it like that.

And so I get, I get info from
him and it's, it's, it's a

great, it's a great thing.

It's really good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: Yeah, they're, and
they're very happy to share too.

Like, they're very happy.

Well, that's it to like, that's it.

Just be like, and this,
and you're like, great.

I didn't have to watch six movies
because we just had, that's it,

like an hour long conversation.

Yeah.

That's it.

That's, that's really cool.

So I, and so with that being said, I am
playing the Star Wars Outlaws game, which

I know a lot of people are upset about.

Uh, but yeah, one, I
didn't pay for it, right?

Someone gave it to me.

So I'm looking at it
from a different lens.

So I'm never gonna be shady and be
like, what's wrong with you guys?

Uh, what I do think is, is that it
has a lot of content and I think,

but if you just can't stand to
play it, like, I guess who cares?

Yeah.

That there's a lot of content.

Um, but I think people might've
got what they paid for.

And I say that very like low, very
like, yeah, let's calm down, you know?

But I think people got
what they paid for because.

There's a lot.

I did have to button map it.

'cause it's interesting that they
want you to press in the right,

the right thumb stick though,
to be fair, to like, do action.

I don't think it's accessible.

Yeah.

I don't think it's accessible.

I don't think, you know,
it's, it's not second nature.

We have just been doing things with like
an A or an X or a trigger, or even like

a cl like, you know, just something else.

Well there's combos

Maria Beck: now too, if you
wanna do a trigger and a button.

Yeah.

There's a couple different ways.

Yeah.

But sometimes it's a little
hard to know which one feels the

best, I guess in the right time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not, it's not my
expertise, but like, and then if

Junae Benne: you're also playing a game
and like the buttons are frustrating,

you're gonna feel that and be like,
this game is already like, yes.

Because sometimes I play and you know,
this is me developing my RRP G brain.

Yeah, yeah.

But I'm like, this isn't intuitive at all.

I'm like, what do they want me to do?

And then, you know, oh yeah, now
I'm fumbling with the controls.

And so, yeah.

It kind of comes out.

So I stepped away from it for a little
bit, but I have enjoyed it when it's

like, I'm at the end of my day and I'm
like, oh, let me just turn on Star Wars.

And it's like, well, I don't
really have to do anything.

Right.

I'm like, just get into a

Maria Beck: world.

Yeah, yeah.

Junae Benne: You know, and, and it's
nice to try to like do the pirate

raids or like do the races Yes.

Or, um, something like that.

So

Maria Beck: I, the, the main thing I
think I've talked about, uh, not, not

the main thing I've talked about this
is that's not, let me restart that.

Uh, the, the, I found an interesting thing
learning that I am mostly a console gamer.

I know there's a lot of us out there,
uh, but I'm nor I'm, I'm a console

gamer, but I really like RPGs and I
really like, like simulation games.

Like we're talking like your
farm Sims or Sims themselves.

Yeah.

And those two genres are mostly on pc.

Uh, there's a lot of them are PC only.

Yeah.

Uh, and there's a reason for that.

Yeah.

Because the UI can get complicated.

Yeah.

And it's so much.

Better overall to have a keyboard,
having keyboard, it's key.

The

Junae Benne: same button for something,
but you press another button to click it.

It's like that's,

Maria Beck: that's, well, like you
people might call me crazy, but uh, I

play ger skate three on PlayStation.

I don't play it on pc.

And that's maybe a crazy move.

Well get

Junae Benne: radical out here.

Like hold,

Maria Beck: hold

Junae Benne: back a little bit.

Maria Beck: Yeah,

Junae Benne: yeah,

yeah.

Maria Beck: Like I said, yeah, everybody's

Junae Benne: yum.

Like

Maria Beck: it's, yeah, it, it's,
I just, I got used to console

and that is, that is how I do it.

And even if it's like a little bit
weird and it feels a little bit weird,

I, I feel fine with a controller.

So that's, yeah.

And it's what you know

Junae Benne: too, like did you
grow up with a PlayStation?

Like is that Yes.

Like your I did.

Yeah.

Some things are just, I did just
easier like, uh, I was reviewing a

controller and I was so surprised
'cause it was an Xbox controller,

but it looked like a PlayStation.

And because I've had like a PlayStation
for so long, I like dedicated a

part of my life to like get to know
Xbox so I could be well-rounded.

Yeah.

And you know, if you're on a
PC, you might as well just buy

Xbox controller, like that's it.

Now it's easy to put the PlayStation
controller, but before you had

to finagle do this and do that.

Um, yeah.

But now, you know, everything
is just plug and play and so.

It was just interesting, like
seeing the PlayStation controller

in my hand and I was like, what?

Because I still had to use the buttons,
but IXA and X weren't the same.

Like I still had to use like the um,
like the 1, 2, 3, like the fourth button.

And so Yes.

Yeah.

But like we were talking about
earlier, we were talking about our.

Caribbean culture earlier about like how
we get frustrated and that we're just, now

we're speaking in our language, you know,
even if we haven't been thinking in it

or you know, we don't really express it.

But like, when you're done, it's
like factory default, right?

Yes.

Like, like that's your setting.

That's like, that's it.

Your setting.

Like, because I can eat, like if you
have a PlayStation and I'm playing on

Xbox and you're like, what button I
could press, I'm easily gonna be like,

oh yeah, like triangle, like square.

That, that one,

Maria Beck: that one right
there is what you press.

I don't know what it's called.

That one.

That button,

Junae Benne: the one that
does the running, just

Maria Beck: press all of them.

I'll wait for you.

You know, like sometimes the look my
partner gives me just like that blank

stare of like, can you use any words?

And I'm like, no, just, just get it.

Do the thing.

You know, like just
That's also our cultured.

Get the thing it is.

Get the thing

Junae Benne: and do the thing
and hand me the thing quickly.

It's.

Maria Beck: It's really funny
'cause when we all get together,

that's exactly how we'll talk.

Yeah.

And then, you know, the partners
who didn't grow up with that

language are like, how are
you doing anything right now?

Because I haven't heard
a single particular now.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

There's this guy, it was
a so, such a funny video.

This, uh, guy is working with a Jamaican
and he was like, we're fixing a sink.

And he's like, go get the something.

And he's like this.

And he's like, no man.

The something like, and

he's like this.

And like everyone in the
comments is like, he's like

firsthand

like experiencing our

childhood because get the thing.

And like literally he was like the
Jamaican guy ended up taking a break

because he was so stressed out.

And I was like, yeah, yeah.

Damn.

But you know.

Saying, seeing that is how we grew up.

Do you think that's helped you with
like producing and understanding people?

Because we do have to have an
intuitive nature to survive at home.

Yes.

And be like, this is the thing to
do and this is the thing not to do.

Not by learning, but by being like, yes,
I believe this is what's expected of me.

Maria Beck: Yes.

I mean even I think
adding, it's like, yes.

And because I am mixed race, uh, the
other side of the families spoke a

different language and so like that
added to it as well is like, yeah, I am

all about context and information and
like just trying to suss things out.

So yeah, so I think that's, that's
also a big part of, of production.

You know, like sometimes you
don't necessarily know what need

is connected to another need.

Um, and you don't necessarily,
like, you're not a, as a producer,

you're not necessarily meant to
know unless you are specializing.

You're not meant to know every
single little thing about what a dev

is doing or how they do it or why.

Right.

But you do need to know how
everything's gonna move forward.

And sometimes that means you
need to zoom in and out of

all sorts of different things.

And how do you do that?

Well, you, you gotta figure out the
kinds of different languages that people

speak when they're making games, and
then have everything connect together.

And that's a, it's a big task sometimes.

I love that.

Uh,

Junae Benne: I love that.

I think because that, I don't
think, that's not a technical skill.

I think that's a soft skill.

Like are you able to switch?

Perspectives, you know?

Yes.

And be able to cater to one
person, especially artists.

Oh, I love them.

But y'all are,

I'm just so happy you have
the brain that you have.

But like, golly, you know, and
I used to be a teacher, so.

Yeah, because I never
wanted to talk to like kids.

Like they were like, do you
understand what I'm saying?

I'm able to like bring that
to adults and be like, so you

catch me or you don't catch me?

So what do you think?

Yeah.

What do you think?

I'm trying to, that's great.

You know?

That's great.

Even talking to like my nieces
of being like, so what do you

think we should do though?

That's like, instead of me just
being like, do do, do, do, do.

That's it.

What do you think we should do?

Like tell, tell me.

And especially because that's a discipline
that I, I'm not an artist, you know, I

can understand accessibility and colors,
but I still get lost on the color wheel.

I'm like, what goes with green?

Oh yeah.

Think of bugs Bunny.

A carrot Orange.

Orange goes with green.

Like, you know, I have a thought process
and they're immediately like, oh, I know

the tertiary colors that like go together.

That's it.

That's it.

This lighting, this
palette, I've this palette

Maria Beck: in two seconds.

Yeah.

You know?

And

Junae Benne: so I'm like, well,
what do you think we should do?

And you know, um, yeah.

But yeah, that's also me having.

Been a client and my friend being an
artist, and she's like, no, you need to

say this is what you want to accomplish.

Or give examples and things like that.

Uh, so yeah.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't know if if there's a

Maria Beck: balance there.

Yeah, there's a balance there.

Like, I'm thinking back to my
experience with Sweet Baby.

You know, like I, there's a balance
between asking and learning and kind

of figuring out from learning from.

The studio that we're working with,
how they do things and what they want,

and at the same time, knowing when to
suggest something different or push

back on that idea for a certain reason.

It's, it's, it's both you
like, it's kind of crazy.

Like you have to do both.

And, um, I think that's, that's kind of
the fun part because I then get to listen

to, like, for example, all, all of the
leads on a project and sometimes they're

clearly at odds with each other and they
might not even realize that at the time.

They're getting frustrated though.

And that's kind of like the
part where I'm like, okay, cool.

What then?

Then that's the interesting kind of little
square that we have to unpack or whatever.

Talk about in terms of like priority need.

What's the end goal?

'cause we're, they're usually aligned.

On a higher level.

Yeah.

They usually wanna get to like the most
fun or like the most meaningful Yeah.

Thing that they could create.

And that's always gonna be aligned.

But how we get there is kind of
how production works, I think.

So do

Junae Benne: you think it's fair to say
that as the producer, because everyone

wants to get to the fun part, do you
think it's fair that as a producer

you get everyone to that fun part?

Like you kind of have
to do the unfun work of

Maria Beck: like Oh yeah, sometimes.

Yeah, sometimes.

Yeah.

Sorry, everyone and there's 10,
there's only 10 minutes in this

meeting, so we gotta get through.

Yeah.

Like a little bit.

Yeah.

Uh, and that sucks.

'cause like I sometimes people
are flowing and I want everyone

to have more time on their games.

Like I do, I do want flip side.

I just said that and I was like,
Maria, I don't know about that.

Uh, okay.

I was flip side.

Sometimes it's actually better
when there is a bit of pressure.

Yeah.

And I think that like knowing when to
give more time or to give less time.

Is also incredibly important.

Um, but games don't happen in a vacuum.

There's budgets, there's deadlines,
there's other external pressures

and needs, and there's a release
date and under all of this.

So there is only so much
time, and that is, uh, kind of

the unfun thing I would say.

But it's an important, it's an
important part of game development.

Let's get to the hot take,
which is Sweet Baby Inc.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: The whole, let's
get to the hot take, right?

That's it.

Yeah.

We, I didn't have one for today
and I was like, oh, we usually

have one, but it's you, right?

Yeah.

Like aside from the people that really
believe in gaming for the Culture

podcast and who wanna hear Yes.

Janae and Maria talk.

We have some people listening
because they want Yes.

Some type of hot take.

Yeah.

And we were talking about it earlier
and I said I was gonna mention it again.

Yeah.

Because there's been a lot that happened.

Would you mind summing up in your
own words of what's been happening?

Is it a year and a half now?

I feel like it's, yeah.

I feel like two years, but
it's just a year and a half.

Maria Beck: Yeah, it's a year and a half.

Okay.

It is safe to say, I think I
remember, I remember the weekend

where it kind of started and then
the term Sweet Baby started tr

trending on Twitter on X Twitter.

Hmm.

Uh, and, uh, yeah, A year and a half is, I
think is a good, is a good time estimate.

Um, I felt a little
dumbfounded when it started.

Um, and it was just that we consulted
on some, I think, major AAA games,

you know, uh, God of War, Ragner Rock
and Allen Wake two in particular.

Um, and.

I think because the way the industry
is set up, in part, we are not

always allowed to talk about all
of the details of whatever the

heck we are asked to, to work on.

And honestly, like from a personal
standpoint standpoint, that kind of sucks.

Like I do wish that we could share,
you know, the, the, the stuff

that we work on and how we do it.

I think like knowledge
sharing is important.

Uh, and I like transparency as a producer,
so that's already a side of this where

I'm like, sad that that's not something
that hap was able to happen or can happen.

Um, and so I think it turned into
a bunch of people pulling different

clips and pieces of media and sentences
from GDC talks and information and

gathering them and then creating, uh.

Very quick, fast assumptions.

Um, on a very small team, we're
like pretty indie where it's only

like whatever, 16 of us, I think.

Um, and then assuming I
think the worst honestly.

Um, and then us really not being able
to correct it because its not our games.

We are consultants and we will help
do the writing and we'll help doing,

we'll help do character outlines,
we'll help do story reviews or reports,

whatever, whatever the client needs.

But at the end of the day,
uh, it's that client's game.

Uh, and we want, we want to work on.

Whatever they need in order
to improve their game.

Um, and I think we do that, like, I
think and know we do that successfully

because we're talking about really
popular and games that I think

a lot of people have enjoyed.

Whether you're an Indie or AAA fan that
doesn't, you know, that's everyone I

think has enjoyed a lot of the games.

Um, but I think the discourse, um,
that started and has just kind of like

rollercoaster it all the way through,
uh, goes beyond criticism, right?

It goes into things that can't really be
proven and a conspiracy that's not true

and just a whole bunch of other things.

Um, and so, you know, it, it's.

It resulted in, you know, us speaking to
media, Kim talking and kind of explaining

things as mu as much as she can.

Um, and then, you know, at the end of all
of that, a whole lot of harassment, like

just straight up, a whole lot of really,
really terrible things said to either me

or my colleagues who are also my friends.

Um, and just, you know, after that
when you see co cos studio devs or

you see colleagues who you've gotten
to know and you respect their work

and you appreciate your day in, day
out work that you do with them, they

try and say something to say, Hey, I
don't, this is not how that's going.

Uh, sweet Baby doesn't make the rules.

They suggest a lot of things,
but they are not the final

decision makers of any of this.

Maybe don't do that.

Uh, then they get.

A dogpile of harassment and hate.

Uh, and the hate and harassment,
I think is a larger conversation,

I think even outside of games.

Um, but you just experience that kind
of, that amount of eyes and that amount

of hate on you, and you have to really
think about it and you have to still keep

working and you still have to do the thing
that you're doing 'cause you think it's

important and you think it's improving the
games that you work on, like genuinely.

Um, and so, yeah, I think that's
the best way I can sum it up.

I, yeah, you, yeah.

You did a good job.

You did a good

Junae Benne: job.

Sum it up.

Thank, uh, the, the, the troll
language that needs to be used here

of what's going on is that, um, yeah.

White men, cis white men,
were not interested in the

work that Sweet Baby Inc.

Put into for something that
was already created, like we

talked about earlier, right?

Like, that's right.

People come to you with them and they were
like, we just don't wanna see minorities.

Yeah.

We don't wanna see minorities.

At the end of the day, they don't
wanna see minorities and they, they,

they don't have the ability, they
don't have the ability to cancel

someone who is like, remedy or, you
know, like an ooof or something.

Like that's it.

And they really don't have the ability
to cancel Sweet Baby Inc. Either.

They thought because they could count
on their fingers and toes, how many

people work at Sweet Baby Inc. That they
could be like, you, you, you, you, you,

and like you said, you messed this up.

Yep.

I think, you know, it's really,
it's really, that's another piece

of owning your own business is like,
we didn't have PR set up for this.

Like, this is not really our place to
talk about it, but because our name is

coming up, this is what we gotta do.

And I think that part sucks because.

You guys are not strangers to
like harassment and like racism.

Like you're not oblivious that
those things are happening.

Happening.

Yeah.

And then also how much more
in the gaming industry.

Yeah.

And so, you know, to have to, to be
doing this work for so long Yeah.

To be doing this work for so long and then
for some people to get stirred up right.

In like their private Yes.

Safe community spaces
of their echo chambers.

Like for them to get stirred up enough
to like then and you know, to do

this I think is what's irritating.

Because I was really excited when gamers
started to work together to like, you

know, the GameStop, GameStop stocks.

Right.

I was like, we have the power.

Yes.

I was really excited when we got
them to change sonic, you know, like,

yes, we, you know, with great power.

You know what I mean?

Well, and so like we, we, we have
the buying power, we have influence.

We have a say, we have authority.

Um, yes.

But at the end of the day,
it's like, yeah, but like,

I'm gonna say it, at the end of the
day, white men are going to white men.

Like at the end of the day, they're like,
yeah, but like, we're we just to let

you know who's in charge around here?

Like, yeah.

You know, and I think,

I think

Maria Beck: like, I think, I think
I get, I think I, I think, I don't,

I've never known this, uh, universe,
but I think I could get the un the.

Concept of having games where everybody
looks like you and relates to you and

has a lifestyle, and then that starts
to change and you're going, whoa.

Like you're going, whoa.

I, I think I can understand maybe
the shock or like the change.

Yeah.

Change can feel weird.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Maria Beck: But as soon as we
go aggressive or we go rage

or we go hate, I'm like, okay,
well, I, I don't get it anymore.

Don't know what to do.

I don't know what to do with that.

Yeah.

And we're talking about all within
the context of the world and how

the world has worked and how it
racisms them and classism and

all of those things have worked.

They, they, that, that just exists in
our world, whether we like it or not.

Yeah.

Uh, I don't, I don't get that.

I don't get it.

I just don't get that part.

Junae Benne: Isn't that crazy though?

Like we can, we can, we can
sympathize and be like, right.

Change is hard.

I get it.

You were used to Sure.

You being Master chief, master
chief, and now you know, you're

her and Horizon Zero, zero Dawn,
you don't have a choice, you know?

Sure.

Or.

You know, not even just
playing like, welcome to,

Maria Beck: welcome to
My World a little bit.

You know, like,

Junae Benne: you know, but like,
they never want, they never want

it to be us like they do, right.

With like the swaggy P points.

But like, they never wanted to
experience like what we're going through.

They never Yeah.

Want that.

You know?

That's why, and it's the,
it's the strategy, right?

Because some of these, some
of these people don't care,

they just know it outrageous.

Other people.

It's a strategy to be like reducing
women to like what they're wearing

and how they look in the video game.

Oh yeah.

It's a strategy like, you know, to
talk about that and to, to go on.

And so unfortunately we are gonna
continue to have this conversation

because they're gonna continue to do
it because it gets clicks, it gets

likes, um, you know, the integrity of
journalism as a journalist, the integrity

of journalism has gone down because of
social media court and opinion and, you

know, being in your own echo chamber.

Like I have a friend
who follows someone on.

Um, X because they give them good news.

And I went there and I was like,
oh, their con content's mad cringey.

And they're like, yeah, I don't agree.

And I was like, yeah, you know, I feel
like I used to be that unbothered at

some point, but in this day and age where
people are going through your followers,

where people are going through your
followers and looking and seeing what you

did this, and they're not exactly like a,
you know, like a streamer or someone who,

who, uh, chooses to be in the limelight.

You know, like I don't even
get to toe a line, right?

No.

Like I, I have to be like in line,
I have to do this, I have to do

that because not only, not only so I
could be like, I am kinfolk, right?

Like not only, yeah.

So I feel like I'm kinfolk, but also to
not lose out on opportunities like Yes.

Uh, the documentary that I've been putting
together for a long time, when I first

asked people to like, uh, sponsor it and
partner with me, and I told them that I,

the first place I was going to was Europe.

They're like, why not Africa?

Maria Beck: Ooh.

Hmm.

Okay.

Junae Benne: What

do you mean?

What do you mean?

What, tell me what you mean.

Quickly.

Quickly.

Say like, like, tell me
what you mean quickly.

Tell me what you mean quickly.

Maria Beck: Podcast listeners
are not gonna see my face when

I reacted to how that was.

I don't even know what to say.

Tell me quickly.

I don't what to say

Junae Benne: to hurry up and say it.

Hurry up and ask me why you asked that.

Because I wanted to do, I wanted to
do a documentary about black women

all over the world in gaming, but
I already, I already know them.

I already know.

I already know them.

We could, we could do a Zoom call, we
could do a Free's basic plan, zoom call.

That's it.

Of all the black women that are in
gaming in the world, uh, I know that all

Maria Beck: Airbnb, Airbnb
hanging out, like it's so easy.

Literally, like, it's just like very easy.

It wouldn't even need a

Junae Benne: landline.

Somebody could call somebody.

We could literally all three way
each other and be on alone, you know?

And so I was like, well,
let me do women, right?

I was like, let me go abroad.

Like it would be really exciting.

But as I find them then, you know,
obviously I can put black women in

there, but like, let's do all of them.

Yes.

Like no matter, uh, like
presenting or anything like that.

Like if Yeah.

They wanna participate, they participated
because I got questions of like,

well, I am not exactly like women.

And I was like, if you wanna, you want to.

That's it.

You know, I just wanted to let guys
know that they can't, this is not for,

well, that's not invitation for them.

It's like it's, it's just

Maria Beck: disproportionate.

Yeah.

It's still dis disproportionate.

Right?

Like, yes.

You'll find lots of game devs.

Yeah.

And people who've worked in games who
are women or who are not men at least.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they've been here for a while.

But the proportion and the, like,
social, uh, all of the things

that affect why that is Yeah.

In society is what you're
trying to focus on.

That's all.

It's not, it's not to
exclude anybody necessarily.

It's just like, it's that include more.

That's it.

Junae Benne: You know, and I had this
conversation a while ago where I was

talking to some of the like women
of, uh, the fighting game community.

Mm-hmm.

And we had a panel and I was like, you
know, it's really cool that we have

like women in fighting game because
like, you know, fighting games are

predominantly guys, but we do have some
women that are doing really, really good.

Oh yeah.

And I was like, the thing is, is
that once we start separating women,

then we have to separate black women.

Latin women.

Asian women.

Yeah.

And we have to separate, you
know, like queer women and

then like a different type.

Yeah.

'cause you know, maybe queer women
aren't as comfortable with like,

you know, women who identify as like
lesbian or like, you know what I mean?

Right.

Then we have to keep going and
going and then, you know, we're

separating women with disabilities.

'cause even though maybe they're lgbtq
plus, they're not okay with people with

disabilities and that's exhausting.

While everyone should
get that space For sure.

Percent.

It is going to feel exclusive, you know?

And so, yeah, because it's
unfortunate that we couldn't just

stop like at women in gaming, right?

It's unfortunate that's it,
that we couldn't just do this,

but we have to, we have to.

Maria Beck: Like, it's a, I don't
know, a super, a super simple kind of

way that I think about it, or I try
and remind myself is like, if me and

my best friend both got hurt, right?

Like I got a big gash in my leg
and my best friend broke her arm.

Those two things are
incredibly important to fix.

Yes.

Sometimes you can't put them together.

Yeah.

We can't heal those two
things the same way.

Well, what if you like

Junae Benne: cut an artery,

Maria Beck: Maria?

Like what if you like,
like it's still important.

It's still, we gotta help you too, but
like, I can't, I literally, I physically

can't talk about all three things at once.

Yeah.

So let me just, let me just
start where I can start.

You know, we're, we're all human
at the end of the day with, at the

end of the day so many resources.

And so like, it's kind of, it's
a very small example, but like,

it is kind of like that there are
so many, uh, issues and so many

things that do need a space Yeah.

To be talked about.

Um, just, just, you know, let it,
let, I think we're space understanding

Junae Benne: because we're a
minority, hypothetically speaking,

if I was a cis white man, right.

I think Maria just like suck it up.

Like, didn't they give
you Barbie adventure?

Like you didn't like that?

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Or be like, I mean, you can play on
Halo, like everyone wearing a helmet.

Like, you know, I'm not an old guy.

You don't know.

I'm not Yeah.

You don't know who that is.

Yeah.

Literally.

Like, you know, well,
except like the voices

Maria Beck: are kind of, but it's fine.

It's all right.

Well, we can

Junae Benne: have a deep voice.

I mean, I wouldn't talk to her
and I'd make fun of her and

call her a man, but like, right.

She could have a, you know.

All right, we're

Maria Beck: getting lost
in the sauce now, dude.

Come on.

Bring it back.

Hold on.

You know,

Junae Benne: but it's, but you know,
unfortunately we could follow their,

their their, uh, train of thought,
and I think that's like, I mean,

Maria Beck: it's goalpost moving,
like goalpost moving 1 0 1.

I don't, you know, I'm like.

Cool.

I don't know what you're
getting outta that.

'cause I'm tired and I
think you're tired too.

Yeah.

Like what

Junae Benne: are we doing to do,
to do mental gymnastics every day?

To not to, to exclude somebody is madness.

No, it's absolutely madness for me
to wake up and be like, well, why

would they, no, we couldn't do that.

And then to like, they don't

Maria Beck: deserve this at all.

Like, just imagine.

And then

Junae Benne: going Reddit to to, to
take other people's comments and like

regurgitate them is madness to me.

Like, it could not be me.

I'm sorry.

I, I would never work that hard for
racism or, you know what I mean?

Like homophobia or like
any type of, or phobia.

I couldn't work that hard.

I'd be like, whatever, bro.

Like I'd be like, whatever, bro.

If they wanna come, let them come, like

just

open the doors.

Like I would be too exhausted.

Like, and I think.

Like on top of that, the minority
is already exhausting, so maybe

they just don't have Yeah.

Issues going on.

Yeah.

Maria Beck: I don't, they gotta create,

Junae Benne: create those issues.

Maria Beck: Yeah.

And, and I think, like for me,
that the other thing that gets me

down sometimes is like, I do see,
I do see friends, I do see people,

just random people on the internet.

I see influencers.

I just, just existing
both online and offline.

I see how much positive positivity,
like just genuine, like happiness or

joy or being, feel, uh, being heard
or feeling like they've been seen

and represented in, in, in a media.

In media.

Like we know how powerful that is.

Yeah.

We all do.

Right.

And especially, especially gamers.

Like, it just, we all, we all know
how nice it is to see yourself in

a, in a player in different ways.

Um, and so you are.

Telling people that they don't
deserve ever to feel heard or seen.

Yeah.

When you act that way.

And that one mind blowing to me and also,
uh, really infuriating because it's just

something that, like, I've been playing
games since I could, I don't know.

Yeah.

Since my brain would let me to literally,
uh, and I really, really like them and

I don't want all of them to be one way.

I, that's the whole point.

Yeah.

No is I want them to all
be different, you know?

That's why I feel like in are

Junae Benne: also dominating
because it's not Right.

Just like one way, like indie still
have like that, that uh, yeah.

Heart in it.

Not that aaas, don't they?

They be having good stories too,
but when an absolutely game is

like, I really care about the
environment, let me show you that.

I've been thinking about this concept
of how we interact with the, um,

like, you know, the environment
or, or, um, even the other hot take

about the CEO of, uh, the United.

Uh, healthcare.

Oh yeah.

Passing suddenly.

Right.

And, you know, people are like,
oh, very, he, he played among us

to learn how to be an assassin.

And I was like, I know

Maria Beck: about that.

Junae Benne: He probably wasn't
good at it because among us is

about getting away with stuff.

And then, well, I was like, have
you seen among us though, like,

that's not gonna teach you even
if we're can teach you anything.

What you wanna say is Assassin's
Creed, because his lineage is

probably really close to SIO auditor.

If we're gonna play these
mental gymnastics, you have to

know the story.

You know,

Maria Beck: this is it.

At least, at least, at least make
the, I don't care if you, if you've

never played Assassin Creed would
make that one at least makes sense.

Junae Benne: You know,

like,

but

just wanting to, like among
us, have you seen among us.

They just didn't know.

Are we talking about the same among us?

No, because I don't know who they
were talking about, you know, Etsy,

auditory being among the other
people, but I don't That's right.

There we go.

There we go.

They, they just, they were confused.

They, they both had an A and
they were like, just pick one.

We don't know.

Maria Beck: It was a language problem.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just it's okay.

It's okay.

People made mistakes.

That's okay.

That's only their journalistic

Junae Benne: integrity and duty, because
this was on NBC news and I used to

write for NBC news, and like one day
I posted the wrong giraffe in a photo

gallery and I got an angry phone call.

But no, you're just allowed to like not
do your, so you know here, like Yeah,

Maria Beck: that's, that is, yeah.

Both, both T and true.

Like that is just, yeah.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Yeah.

I,

Maria Beck: she said what she had to
say, like, there's nothing else to it.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

I, yeah, like you said, being, if it was
up to them though, the reason why they

are not liking the inclusivity, 'cause if
it was up to them, it would be erasure.

And so they think that we
would also want erasure.

And some people do.

Some people do.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't.

It's true.

I, I don't, there I love,
I love Nathan Drake.

What?

Like what would I do without Uncharted?

I love Nathan Drake.

I love him.

I don't want erasure my

Maria Beck: family.

Is is comes from completely
different races and backgrounds,

like we, like, you know what I mean?

Like, we, it wouldn't exist.

They don't want you to exist in there.

That's what we literally, literally,
they don't want you to exist.

Like, like I see how,
like we all hang out.

We enjoy each other's foods.

We talk about si stuff.

We argue like a normal family.

We laugh like a normal family.

You know?

Like it's, yeah.

I don't, I personally, I
can't, I don't understand.

But, uh, you know, there, there was
a thing that you said that I wanted

to bring up, uh, which was, you know,
you're a hundred percent right, right?

There's, there are people who
want erasure and there are

people who do not want different.

Uh, and that part I don't get.

And then there's like, you know, I,
you know, I see every now and then

in threads, like a genuine critique.

And I'm like, personally,
I'm like, I can't.

I can't tell you.

Sometimes I, I agree with that real
criticism, and I want to be clear.

I don't agree with hate.

Yeah.

I don't agree with any sort of
critique about like, this person

being a race or like, whatever.

Right.

Yeah.

Like when I'm talking about a
genuine critique about like, I

didn't think this part was fun.

You're allowed to think that, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or like you're allowed to say like,
ah, man, you know what, when these two

characters were talking, like, it just, it
just didn't pull me like I wanted it to.

Yeah.

That's okay.

Right?

Like I could sometimes agree with that.

A lot of the time that's,
that's I think like.

Where I'd rather the
disc course genuinely be.

Junae Benne: That's right.

And not necessarily the artist, which
I, I don't believe in separating the

art from the artist for y'all thinking
about the, the, the, you know, singers

and, and the people who are genuinely
like bad people and we're low key

telling on themselves through art.

'cause that's what it is.

It's going to show your
lifestyle, you know?

Yeah.

But like, actually critiquing the art.

Like I don't get a banana
duct tap to a wall.

Yeah.

I don't want that person to
never work again, you know?

And I don't want

harm to come to that person, but like,

yep.

Yeah.

And I guess it has to be hard, right?

To find those things because I know I like
to get better at my job and I, I, I don't

like, but I like, um, you know, criticism.

I'm like, yeah, so what
do you think about that?

So I could be like, dang, you know what,
I didn't come with my a game on that.

You're absolutely right.

Yes.

And that has to be hard because
you're like, oh, you, oh sweet baby.

And you're like, let me scroll
through like a hundred comments.

To finally get to somebody who
actually played and played it in depth.

That's, it was like, I
understand and I did this.

That's it.

And I did that because like, um, and like,

Maria Beck: tell me why, right?

Yeah.

Like, I'm a producer, I want to
know why, or I want to know how, or

I want to know, okay, this didn't
land for like a bunch of people.

Why would that be?

Or yeah.

Et cetera, et cetera.

We're about making games
that are meaningful.

But if, if the line is like, oh, 'cause
that person doesn't look like me or

doesn't talk like, you know what I mean?

Like, I'm like, well, comfort zone,
once again, that's where that travel

Junae Benne: comes in.

Right?

That's maybe, maybe if they would
leave 10 miles out of their zip

that's, you know, in any direction.

In any direction mean, yeah,
maybe it would be like, huh.

It's

just,

Maria Beck: that's it.

And, and the same thing I think goes for
like, you know, if, if a game doesn't

have enough intention around, uh.

Plot point.

Yeah.

Or, uh, part of a world.

Yeah.

And you're like, this doesn't feel
as deep as I thought it was gonna be.

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Maria Beck: Valid, right?

Like, I have those critiques
about games as well.

Um, and I really, really appreciate
when, uh, artists and developers

make a world that's like it.

Um, RPGs, right?

Like, I love a lot of lore and I
love a really well thought out world.

That's partially why I'm here.

Yeah, yeah.

Is 'cause that's what I,
that's my bread and butter.

And so if that doesn't
happen, that's real.

Uh, and that's more about intention
and like resources and all the

different variables that will
change when a game is being made.

And sometimes it's better to just
do that critique than yell at a

person who worked on the game, on
the like, but imagine conversation

people that worked on that game.

Junae Benne: Imagine the
conversation where people are,

people have played the game, right?

We're already getting, we're already
getting into fantastical realm.

So people have played the game
and they're genuinely having a

discourse, and Maria's like scrolling
through Reddit, and she's like, huh,

yeah.

You know, that's really interesting
because actually, that was my idea,

but through changes, da, da da dah,
and then they're having like, you

know, this interaction with the
person who actually made it, you know?

But now it's like, I'll
never go on Reddit again.

Well, I'm not saying that.

Yeah.

But you, you know, it's,
you're like, no, wait.

Yeah,

Maria Beck: no, and no.

Like, I mean, I, yeah.

I, uh, kid you not, I do
surface with Reddit via friends.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And that's kind of, and that's kind
of because of this year, like I just,

it's, you know, I'm like, I, uh, need
to touch grass a little bit sometimes.

Yeah.

Junae Benne: I, I entered the industry
at Gamergate and I was like, oh,

this is what they were talking about.

Because Yeah, when I entered it, I
didn't know initially, and then mm-hmm.

I was like, why is
everybody tripping, right?

Like mm-hmm.

It, it was happening the same time
that I entered, and so I didn't know.

And so like.

And once again, funny that like Alan
Wake was like, you know, in Remedy.

'cause I was in Finland and when I tell
you it was not that same energy, but

then again I wasn't really online and
like finished like territory at that.

And so it's like I was removed
from it because I wasn't really,

like, I wasn't getting a bunch
of online stuff from the US Yeah.

And I wasn't in because a lot of
the finished stuff was in finish.

That makes sense.

And so I would probably
have to like translate.

I was You'd have to search for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was already kind of doing my own
thing, so I didn't stumble across like

anybody talking about it in this way.

And so.

I was like, dang, that.

I was like, this just
sounds like really big.

You know?

Like when some of the other news came
out about some of the other companies

and like how their culture was.

Yes.

I was like, that sounds doable.

I was like, you know, like some things
don't sound so big for their britches.

I was like that.

Yes.

I was like that.

That can very much happen because in these
small spaces, I, I've experienced this

because sometimes people take it too far.

Yes.

You know?

Yes.

People do that.

And so when I was like, well, I mean, they
ruined and I was like, all six of them.

Yeah.

All six of them.

Like they, they just ruined
this whole thing for you.

You didn't even know they existed.

Yeah.

And then, you know,
they, they did this, so.

Maria Beck: Yeah.

Yeah.

No, it's true.

And, and, and I think that that goes back
to like, uh, my, my focus on emotions

and empathy as a producer as well.

Right.

Like there at a certain
point your, the way you feel.

You're allowed to feel the way you
feel, but you gotta dissect why,

and then you have to figure out
what you're gonna do with that.

And you know, the tho those
people online are adults.

They get to do what they, uh, want.

Uh, unfortunately, yeah.

Sometimes.

Uh, and so they need a little help.

You know, they, they
needed a little support

Junae Benne: in the other
direction, but Yeah.

Yes.

Maria Beck: But like equally, you
know, like, I, a great example,

uh, on a personal level is like,
I love the Dragon Age series.

Mm-hmm.

And I. Specifically really
enjoy Dragon Age Inquisition.

I know a little about about the first
games, and I am an RPG gamer who,

once I loved Dragon Age Inquisition,
it's like an 80 hour game minimum.

Oh, wow.

And I play that.

That's not bad that

Junae Benne: that's actually that bad.

I play,

Maria Beck: it's not bad.

It's not.

Yeah.

There you go.

Right.

Like, I think, I think a
hundred hours is about you're

how I got from start to finish.

Junae Benne: You're Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's,

Maria Beck: that's pushing
it, that hours pushing it.

I played that two to three times over.

Oh, wow.

In different ways, because there's a lot
of replayability there, like, just learn.

But, but

Junae Benne: I love a
replayability, you know?

I feel like it's great.

You don't get that often.

Right.

And also,

Maria Beck: yeah,

Junae Benne: once you play that 80
to a hundred hours the first time,

even though you're doing something
different, you're not gonna, you're

not gonna exactly like tr like.

It's not gonna take you that long.

Maria Beck: Well, there's lots of
different there, there's lots of different

paths where you're like, oh, uh, I
could go either way with this answer.

And then that's how, you know,
okay, well, I'll go this way first

time and I'm gonna go deal with
that and experience that later.

And that's just really exciting for me.

Yeah.

Um, but I, I feel like.

You know, with the new one that came out,
there was a lot of discourse around it.

A lot of people hated it.

Uh, for a lot of, and I think
some valid criticisms, right?

A lot of people like it.

Um, and I'm kind of stuck in like,
well, I had strong emotions about this.

I came from Inquisition, and
there's a lot of ways it has

changed and I don't like that.

I don't like change.

Sometimes I, and that's
where I'm like, I get it.

I don't like change.

Sometimes change can be like really
frustrating, but then I think about

like, okay, well one, I really
appreciate the devs for, I know how

much hard work they put into that.

Um, and I'm like, I still,
because I'm a fan of this

franchise, I wanna give it a try.

I wanna play it through.

And my criticisms are like,
whatever I feel about different

parts of the game, totally valid.

I'm not.

Directing that to anybody.

That's crazy, right?

Like that's just, you don't do that.

Like for me, and there's,

Junae Benne: it could have been like
this, but you don't know what's best for

everybody because you're not a dictator.

Maria Beck: That's it.

And like I, if I really feel strongly,
maybe I'll write a review maybe,

or maybe I'll say my piece online.

Sure.

But like, but even then

Junae Benne: it wouldn't be like.

This was terrible.

You'd be like, wow.

Well, maybe this was great that we
could have, it was really great.

That's it.

But this is the part that I really liked,

Maria Beck: or like I at
least acknowledge my bias.

Yeah, but my bias that I'm like
comparing from Inquisition,

maybe they wanted to do something
different and that's their intention.

It God award did that.

Junae Benne: That's fine.

That threw me for a loop that
really threw, that's me for a loop.

Because I was like, hold on.

What do you mean that's it?

Like the QuickTime event.

That's it.

I also have to put on armor
and I can't just, what do

you, yeah, this is a different

Maria Beck: game.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

And then sometimes you gotta
trust what the devs were cooking.

And then sometimes like, it's
okay to have feelings about it.

You know, you might've aged up bit

Junae Benne: too.

There's such so many new gamers and so
many people coming on that are, that's it.

I always think about that.

And then we are gonna wrap this up.

I always think about like, yeah,
how adults made cartoons and that we

thought they were funny, you know?

And so that's why a lot of like.

Sixties, seventies and eighties
things were placed into our, uh,

cartoons 'cause they were making them.

So we knew about like, you know,
seventies and eighties a lot.

And then it kind of heard a little bit
because now that people who are my age

are making content, they're not putting
like a lot of two thousands in, there're

put, we're putting seventies in, that's
it, eighties stuff in there because

like, how else are you explaining like
stranger things, like you, that's it.

No, that's it.

Like being um, you know,
like being a thing.

But

Maria Beck: yeah.

And, and like to Stranger Things
is a great example where like

some of my older family members.

Just not vibrant with it.

Yeah.

I love Stranger things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it makes sense why, that's
why that's different, right?

And like, it doesn't mean that they
like think the whatever is bad or the

this person deserves X, Y, Z, right?

Like that is, I think the
fundamental difference de right.

They don't want,

Junae Benne: they just
don't wanna watch it.

Like, like just, that's okay.

Imagine banning everybody to a dungeon
every time you didn't like something.

And they also liked it.

Like, I thought about it.

'cause I went to a concert before
and I was like, I probably don't even

like the people that are in here.

But we like a common thing.

I wasn't being cynical, it was
just like, you know, you meet a

concert buddy and you're like, wow.

And you're like, yeah, but for
every one person there's probably

like three people you don't like.

Like you guys just like this one

Maria Beck: thing.

It's fine, Vince, you can, you can still,
you can still be friendly with them.

It's all right, Maria.

Say, say hi to your neighbors.

Bring your dog to your neighbor.

Absolutely.

Eventually they'll say hi back.

And that's, that's important.

Junae Benne: That's a
proven, that's proven.

I, I wanna submit that to a scientific
journal 'cause I've done the research.

Put it on your shirt.

The experiment.

Yeah.

I dunno.

So I, I, I wanna get published.

I want my credit.

You know,

this has been great.

Um, this is gonna be a
very great first episode.

Like, I just decided that this
was the first episode, so,

Maria Beck: oh, I feel honored now.

Oh, I'm nervous now

Junae Benne: because I mean, why,
why not open with a premiere?

Like, 'cause we just talk like two hours.

Like at minimum.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We just talked for like two hours.

So I think that people should
enjoy this as a first episode.

Um, so thanks you guys for,
for staying until this far.

Maria, you got anything you
wanna say to the people?

Do you want them to find you

about their socials?

Like, or if you wanna say anything or
can you give us any clues on like what

you're coming up with next of any,
anything exclusive that you can share?

Yeah.

Maria Beck: Yeah, nothing super exclusive.

Um, unfortunately, uh, we're still
working hard on usual June, and that

is the thing that's kind of like
front and center for me right now.

Okay.

Um, are you excited about it?

Like is this something you Oh, yeah.

Junae Benne: Play or is this a part
of the thing where you would like to

have a pair of social relationship?

Maria Beck: Relationship?

You know what, I, no, it is 100%.

I, I think, I think
same with Alan Wake too.

Yeah.

Uh, and I think producers maybe get
this special perk because you're

not like in a specific dev thing.

Yeah, I do.

I do wanna play almost all of the games.

Do you on, do use all the

Junae Benne: games that you work on?

Like do they, I, how do you mean get

Maria Beck: a, do they
just like give code?

Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

Some, sometimes.

And you play every

Junae Benne: one.

Maria Beck: No.

Oh, no.

Okay.

No, no, no, no, no.

I was like, wow, you're really with it?

I get, yeah.

I get, I think I get all
of them, or I try to.

Yeah.

Or at least put them on a list so that
I can wishlist them and get them later.

Um, but yeah, no, usual June
is, I think the main thing.

I, I am so excited for
when the game comes out.

'cause I wanna play it myself 100%.

I wanna run around in that game.

Um, and aside from that, I just really
appreciate y'all listening to me.

I don't know, get, I got a little angry.

I think I got a little, I got a
little angry at the whole situation,

but I really appreciate just
being here and talking to you.

It was, it was good.

Junae Benne: I appreciate
you talking about it.

And really quickly, yeah.

Before the camera even started
rolling, we were just talking about

being from a Caribbean culture.

Yes.

And not being able to be upset and
then also feeling like, you know,

you can't be upset online too.

So I wanted to mention that.

I wanted to give that
an honorable mention.

'cause I think, yeah,
that's really important.

You know, and you got, and I, I
know everyone will congratulate

you for you not reacting, but I
also think that's being a pushover.

And so even if you did show emotion,
this is your craft, this is your job,

this is something you've invested time
in, they've invested in you, uh, you're

allowed to be like, man, y'all are crazy.

You know, doxing people, of course we
have to, no, we have to draw a limit.

'cause you don't wanna be
just as bad as them, but to be

passionate about it, just not.

You know, there's

Maria Beck: no way to express,
I think anger that conveys

how you've been impacted.

Yeah.

And communicates like, okay,
here's what we gotta do next

while still being respectful.

Like, you know, like their emotions are
there for a reason and they, they set

boundaries or the way we communicate.

Yeah.

It's part of communication.

They're important.

You're something things wrong.

I was

Junae Benne: thinking about that when you
were saying that sometimes people flash.

That's, and I was like, they're getting
frustrated 'cause they know that there's

a pin that's just not connecting.

That's it.

Yeah.

That's

Maria Beck: it.

But I can still, we can still
all be respectful to each other.

That's the, that's the main thing.

So, you know.

Thank you.

I get it.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Yeah, people, uh, if, if people do find
me online, you, you can absolutely,

uh, follow me and message me.

Um, I'm really bad at
checking my messages, but I

am friendly when I'm there.

So maybe if, uh, I don't,

Junae Benne: Maria in Balder's gate, she
might be a bit more receptive to you.

You know,

Maria Beck: opposite.

I am pretty chaotic and vul skate.

Good luck with that.

I don't know.

There we go.

Right?

Junae Benne: Yeah.

Thanks so much for joining and it was
really, really great talking to you.

I always have so much fun, like Yeah.

Talking to all my guests 'cause these are
the people that I wanna talk to, right?

Like, you've been in the industry
and you know, if you want to, you

could have a chip on your shoulder
because you've accomplished so much.

Um, it's very wonderful.

It's very wonderful, uh,
to talk to you and yeah.

This concludes this episode of
Gaming for the Culture Season three.

I have yet to name any of my seasons,
so there's just one, two, and three.

Um, but if I come up with a
name, you'll know at some point.

But currently right now, it's just
season three of gaming for the culture.

And if you would like to ask
any of my guest questions,

please subscribe to my Patreon.

It's Patreon, Jana Benet.

Once again, Patreon, Janae Benet.

And don't forget to like, share,
subscribe, obey, but I love Borderland,

so I'm always gonna tell you to subscribe,
like, like, like subscribe and obey.

Uh, but thank you once again.

I have been your hostess, Janae.

And until next time, game safely.

Be kind.

Wash your hands and your butt.

And your feet.

Just wash the whole thing.

The whole thing.

All of it.

Just don't, don't be stingy.

Don't be stingy with it, but, all
right, catch you guys next time.