I'd like to introduce Michael Bartlett Master astrologer based in Santa Fe Michael is uh also an Astrological coach And

how long have you been doing Coaching Michael probably in integrating it with the astrology aspect probably just like

the last year or so just seeing the incredible value of being able to help people with their natural

cycles inherent with how their system relates to them I think it's a really good match and it

spans so many parts of our lives So I think um you know I I actually

had a couple of thoughts when I was um looking at this today there was a quote that had

come up about how we live a transitory life and the word transition was it just popped

out at me because really this is a month of transitions So you know the first question I

wanted to ask you was do you think that this whole life is transitory that we're from birth

to death And is it something that really is is something that makes up our whole entire you know our

whole entire being while we're on this planet What do you think I'm smiling because it's

just such a wonderful like large you know what do you call it 60,000 ft view of life

Right And yeah I mean the truth is it it can only be translator I'm reminded

of the song did called um Life For Rent Because when you think about it we are whatever

we are when we're not in this physical body we're there a lot longer than we are in

this physical body If we believe in something like a soul which I do I

believe in reincarnation I believe we pop up when we go through these life lessons to become

But you know in the space of transition I mean it's very interesting because a

lot of our lives we like to decide for the transitions we like to focus on

So if we think of birth you know the moment of coming separating from our mother coming out of our

mother having the umbilical cords cut breathing separately on our own That's a huge transition to birth and then

on the opposite end of life And and there are so many that go of course on as our life

cycles uh continue throughout our lifetime But then at the end when the when the mortal cord is actually

kind of memorial coil they call it you know when that's actually sliced we let go we release the physical

body and we return to whatever we were all along beforehand We put such an emphasis

on those two things particularly and we tend to forget Well I don't think we really tend to

forget We don't we don't focus as much on even some of the smaller transitions that we have

in life I think we have in our society as we know in so many cases about how like

how our human minds and behaviors or conditions are very polarized in a sense And so we have

these things that we like and these things we don't like and we like birth but people don't

like death for some reason I don't know why As they say no one's really I mean

there have been people of course have nde near death experiences and have come back

and have expressed you know certain experiences that they've had and some of them most of them fit into a

generalized stereotype of experience And then there are those few outliers who have no experience whatsoever And

so the truth is any of us talking from this side of the veil It it's really merely

conjecture even what I'm saying I mean I I have no idea whether what I'm

saying is actually true but it is what my sense is over my lifetime and the experiences I've had And

one thing I like I'm an astrologer as you stated before One thing that I

really appreciate about astrology is helping us to understand that there are cycles in our

lives based on the various planets and each one of their rotations around the sun provide

us with an understanding of different relationships with those parts of ourselves Excuse me And what's

so nice about it is learning that they are a cycle which is a circle

rather than a seesaw or an oppositional energy It's like learning how to how do we be how do we

get to experience each aspect along the circle so that we're able to handle the

death the rebirth the the living in between all the different transitions that we go through whether it's

from birth to being you know birth being you know being simply born or going from toddler stage to

infant stage or from a teenager to a young adult or whatever all those different

stages are and how they signify these these major collective ways in which we as

human beings experience The what do you call unfolding of our life It it seems to

me that change I mean I kind of wrote this down as when I was listening to that project

quote change is inevitable right Change is is absolutely something that's going to happen whether we like it

or not right And it's about dealing with that change and those transitions are about dealing with

that moment from going from one state to another state right And I think it's interesting that

I mean there there could be something as small as changing of the seasons or changing of you know the

way we do take a route work or whatever it might be But it also is something rather large

and you know I'm I'm thinking about change being inevitable and what do we do

for the people who maybe not necessarily accept that change or want to go through that change

That's a really good point Um And that's another aspect that I really appreciate about astrology is because they're

broken down into what are called these three modalities cardinal which is initiating energy energy which is the

very um the the beginning of the season Um throughout the year uh there's fixed which people tend to

be a little more set in their ways They're not as easy to sway uh kind of

ventures in the stubbornness at some some points depending on if they're trying to be pushed Um

Those are the fixed signs and then we have the mutable signs with the fixed meaning the highest point of

that season And then we have the mutable signs which are that in between So like when

we think of um um you know spring time before before uh march before Aris time during Pisces time

when we have that transition between winter and spring we get winter storms and the next day it's

really sunny and then the day after that it's raining again it's that sort of a blending back

and forth And if we think of how should these signs and how each of those modalities kind of

work and if we have planets more planets in certain parts of these modalities we're more than likely

to their their life influence our behavior and our perspective on life And as we

know some people as you said really don't appreciate change They do a lot of things in their life

to make sure they don't on the extreme end of that would be something like hoarding Right

That's something that really you know I'm not going to let go of anything because every

single thing has meaning and as we know that can be something after a certain amount

of time and can be oppressive and even um and can even mean death for that person in

the long run because it creates an unsanitary situation or something happens where all of that collection

is falls on them and they're suffocated literally Yeah Literally Yeah And and I mean

that's I mean I think that's an extreme example of being stuck But you know um you know

there's all kinds of ways of being stuck right And I I'm not sure what you've run into I've

run into things like people who aren't sure what they want to do about their jobs They want to

stay in a career or they want to move to a career or they want to move to a

new company or they may not like the actual physical job that they're doing they

want to do a different type of work They want to move their house they want

to you know change their partner whatever it might be And you know II I see a lot

of that Do you see when you run into those kind of things Do you see a

lot of it And what do you do when you're when you're working through that with somebody I I think

what you're kind of saying is is reminds me me this quote of it's better it's

better the devil you know Right Yeah There's this fear This is not not even a fear I mean if

we think not too long ago the idea of having a being so egocentric and hubristic in our approach to

life because of our special skills that we all have would have really been slapped down We

would have received some sort of a way in which oh you know don't get too full of yourself

You know we were taught kind of these like subtle ways of not really being

too much So it kind of creates this split in the way we're in relationship to how we're

expressive and how we're not And I think at times especially like during transitional times is how do

we do that periscope viewpoint and see the view and go like oh my behavior in this area is

not really working or Wow I really need to end this relationship or I really

do need to step out of this job because um it's not that the glass

is greener but I've been here for you know 20 years I'm not making any

I'm not getting the bonuses I promised whatever whatever the things are whatever those when you start

to add up and you start thinking about it because again there's some you have to pull yourself out of

your position to create that observer to have that observer to see you What are

your pros and cons list I mean that's actually really I find sometimes the easiest

thing to do is just write down whatever that that situation that's going on write it down So you

can put in kind of black and white and it comes out it's no longer part

of that unconscious process of where you're dealing with it or enduring it because I

think there's a way in which we have been taught from our ancestry that we need to do that And

we have this new generation that's coming up and definitely showing us that it isn't all

about work which kind of a kind of an odd it's really messing with a lot

of our generation you know mid sixties generation and early sixties and fifties generation people because we were

so many of us were taught such a huge work ethic right Yeah especially when you have

parents who came out of that depression era who were who were you know to talk about hoarders But you

know that kind of mentality like I may not have it later So cherish it Now I clearly remember

my father saying to me that you know you need to get into a place and you need

to stay at work and be there for 30 years and you will benefit from it at the

end And that that stopped being true during you know my beginning of my career

Now it's not even close to being true Right So change is constant Right It's almost like

you have to embrace that transition Exactly And then what you're speaking to in that sense is

kind of a security orientation Right It's that thing of oh it's much better Again

it's it's an it's kind of a twist on the aspect of the devil you know but it's

just more of this part of um oh I'll be secure here and they will

take care of me and we know that they don't necessarily have one's best interest at heart let alone

if they're even aware of you on an individual basis Exactly You know you you

touched on it a little bit but I want to go back to you you said something

about being when you were talking about being stuck and it ends up becoming you know maybe AAA negative part

of a cycle What other things do you think happen when you or what do you

encounter when people are being stuck What do you run into I run into it A stuck

has a sort of defensive pattern around it So um there might be a way

in which if you start to share something like an observation or you want to reflect something back

and you're met with kind of a no or you just feel that no really present in

the person's field Sometimes there's this you know people there are those people at lives where

you know you can't ask them certain things Right And it's not even and it's you

just know that And so it's it's one of those aspects with it So um that's one part

of it and I like to think of with that is how to um something along the lines of like

how's that working for you How is how you know bringing it into something where

it isn't you don't really want to engage that defensive structure because you're just gonna get they're just gonna

bear down right You're just gonna go like oh you know you're just another one of those people who

don't understand me or don't see me or whatever And so I think in those places it really

helps to sort of ask the questions in a way that is um that is both

leading and yet not leading right I do I use a technique called reflective inquiry which basically I

I if you said something to me about um about you know I don't know hoarding or something you know

we were talking about it just I don't like the way those they are treating me

So yeah I would reflect back to you and say that you you said you don't like the

way that they are treating you Can you go into that a little bit more And it's

one of those aspects that makes you stop kind of like what you said about writing things down

It's one of those things that make you stop and go back into your own head and said

did I say that Did I really say that Did I say those words Right And

that helps to actually um put something out there that that it's a stop It's a it's a a

speed bump There you go That's what I'm asking Yeah it's a speed bump Yeah

Um Do you um how you know I know that doing the inquiry is something that

um helps me and like you said you may ask them a little bit of a question that kind

of gets to a different place But how do you think that people need to take that next step to

get out of being stuck being in the middle of a transition and not being able to

move beyond it I think first and foremost is um because sometimes there's shame wrapped up in it Sometimes

there's just it just might be one of those patterns that they're not even aware

that they're carrying on from mom and dad you know stuff or survival technique they've gained along

the way Um so it's really kind of um II I kind of do what I call sounding

in a way I kind of like ask leading questions around it Kind of like what you're talking about

with the reflective questioning it it just to kind of see what their relationship is to it

and also what the relationship is to self responsibility because there's usually kind of a component

and if if a person is willing to take the self responsibility then isn't even an easier way

to kind of present that and work with it And so I I think that

it's one of those things of helping to see where they are Maybe even like since we're

talking about we've talked about cycles within how transitions occur is kind of mapping out

how that cycle works for them right And seeing where where is the likelihood within

that cycle of experience So um it's it's one of those things of that takes time First

of all I think it's important for us to realize that there aren't any mistakes

until we start becoming aware that we're doing it and it's wrong for us Then I think it starts becoming

then we know we're making mistakes But it it takes a while for us to some people it takes

a really long while to be slapped upside the head with life in certain ways to go

like oh I don't really want it anymore If you know that life in five chapters Right

It begins I walk down the street I fall into a hole I don't know

how I got here And then the last chat I love it Like I go to

different streets and we all have as many chapters as it takes to realize that sometimes we have

to walk down a different street Right Sometimes we have to um the endurance of it because depending

on how we were raised depending on what our own personal psyche is like and

how we're able to deal with this in life Some of us can really take on a lot And

so there's a way in which we some of us have to kind of be broken in a

sense or kind of be to exhaust ourselves or like my friend Aaron Aaron um Sullivan who's a

world known astrologer and phenomenal astrologer She says like with Scorpio it has to get sick and

tired of itself It's this way of like learning Oh you know these the why have these

dramas Like when you talk about your reflective inquiry questions it's to help people Do you

want to stay in a state of victimhood or do you want to be the actor in

your life Right That's kind of what it comes down to and some of us learn and

it's easier to kind of step back But the truth is if we don't find ways in which

we take control and take charge of these different parts of ourselves Then we're just kind of at the

whims of life and and it's going to be it's going to be an interesting journey

Yeah that's true Yeah You know I you as you're talking about this one of the

things that popped into my mind was um what's maybe one of the biggest transitions you see for I

mean obviously don't name names but what's one of the biggest transitions that you've seen in your clients that

you've walked through with them Sorry there we go I would say the biggest one I

mean part of I would say probably the biggest ones have actually been the ones

that I've experienced in relation to especially when I started learning about astrology how certain things were

happening in my own life but then were mirrored by these larger cycles that were unfolding as portrayed

by the astrological placements And to find that synergy and to find that sort of um for me it was

a bit of a like realizing that I'm not the only one who has to endure this

or other people who have had these experiences before and they found ways to survive Like uh my

uh astrologer mentor here in town Tom Brady who is not the the football player um would

uh would explain that you have to you know we have to face these experiences and the

Jupiter gives us these opportunities And sometimes we think it's just these things that are going to be

blessings and blessings and blessings But Jupiter really is just this aspect that expands things So if

you're going through a kind of a difficult or challenging time and you have a Jupiter transit it's

just going to make that much more aware so that you have to deal with it or address it Actually

that's a very good question Uh Can you explain trans in astrology and maybe how that reflects into somebody's life

in transition Well I love that I mean to be honest that's transits and transitions

I mean it's a perfect segue in that regard beautiful way Um So when you're born all the

planets were in a certain arrangement around the solar system and from our vantage point here around the earth and

that creates what we call the astrological chart and the world's all the planets continue

to move on Of course they don't stop staying in that one moment so they continue to move forward

So wherever they are and whatever moment you want to check on them is what we

call a transit And you can compare the current moment of what planets are in relationship to the earth

as to how they were when you were born And those create aspects or relationships between the planets show us

that we're likely to have a challenging supportive at times But also where we are like you say in the

process of our cycle because each of the planets makes an orbit around the sun Some of them

go around really quickly when we think about it every 28 days when we think of

the moon and then the longest being out there with Pluto being some 240 years As far as the cycle

we don't even know None of us humans have lived lived long enough to be able to have the

full cycle of that experience So it's so each of those cycles create aspects of transition as

they're going through So the easiest way to think about it in this intimate way

is every 28 days the moon does that in its relationship with the earth and the sun

and how we witness it from here on the on the planet So when you you know that

old story that they talk about that there's always an increase in the emergency rooms during during

full moons And then there are different experiences that are had at different times of

the planet or or how the tides are usually higher during the full moon when the supermoon just happened

recently which means it was at its ay which means it's it's closest place to the earth

It makes the waves even stronger and heavier which is adding to some of the hurricanes that

were going on Mhm That you know I find that so interesting because so many people are

likely to say well you know the planet zero have an effect on us But we

know we know that the sun has an immediate effect on us We know the

moon has an immediate effect on us It's it's definite that these other things would also

be you know highlighted as as far as having an effect we live here We're part of the universe We've

got to embrace that change as well as the change is within us So yeah interesting What Um

so I don't know if we actually talked about what is the the most the biggest change maybe

that you've seen maybe in another person but I know you talked about yourself So um there was

something else that you were talking about and I wanted to ask about it Um Mistakes that's what you you

had brought up mistakes and that you know that we don't really understand or realize that

where we're at is not necessarily a mistake in general but a mistake for us right And I wanted

you to talk a little bit about that Well it's I think the easiest way to

explain or at least how I see it is those of us who were raised in abusive households or

places where we weren't honored in the ways we need to be seen and treated well

We were raised with what we would eventually call something like normative abuse meaning that we're

used to this certain level of treatment from people And we don't think about it um because

it it's how we were raised I was raised in a pretty emotionally and physically abusive household And so

I made it ok for friends to not abuse me physically but abuse me or treat me poorly

And I didn't think anything of it because it was very normal to me And I took that

as long as I was able to take that What do you think since you bring that up What

do you think jolted you out of that What made you change I think having enough experiences of

it and seeing what it was like on the other side of the going like wow

I truly would rather be by myself than engage excuse me with that sort of behavior or that

sort of person being raised by narcissistic individuals It's very easy to be drawn by the charisma of a

narcissist And it's very easy to especially someone who maybe has some empathic abilities as

well And so they're able to draw you in from the ways in which they treat you

but it's a very intoxicating mix That's how you were raised And so it takes a while to go like

oh this is this is a trap that I don't you know again I don't want to walk

down the street again I want I I finally you know gone I've gone down

the street and as many times as I need to to realize or I mean my

other analogy It's kind of funny who comes in is you're never going to get chocolate milk out of

a well Yeah And so the metaphor is like if you think if your parents

have never shared with you compassion and love and acceptance in a way that you know

that really is important for you and meaningful for you At a certain point you have to realize that

you will never get that chocolate milk from that Well yeah and having to search for it in other places

change is something that takes like you to your point earlier It's a cycle It takes

it's a long it's a it's a lifelong journey right For some I mean in some you know maybe

if they were able to get it really quickly I mean some individuals come in with such

a secure sense of themselves and they're like oh no hell no I'm not dealing

with that And and I think individuals who we have around us help model new

ways for us to be because having been born and raised in a certain environment

we have certain ways that we look at life in that way and we don't really see that

there's other opportunities until we're in relationship with it Mhm Mhm Well thanks for your

time Mr Mr Master astrologer Michael Bartlett Um It's been it's been a good talk Um Let me ask

you one last question Always a pleasure connecting with you Of course I I love talking

with you So let me ask you one last question What question did I not ask you that

I think is that you think is important for transitions and knowing about change the image to me is coming

is is is the image of the ocean and I'm thinking of of going out and surfing or going out

to the body board or just body surfing and and they are coming in very strong in one

area but over off to the right or off to the left you see that they aren't as strong

and so you go over to that area and go around them And I think it's it's

about learning how to navigate life and learning where we need to take things head on and go

right into the way versus where we need to kind of go around and and and learn

it and and I think it takes time Um And I think that's always the hardest part for us when

we're younger is we have this idea that um that we just need to go through it or we

need to just push we can persevere we can we can just run up that mountain and make

it And yeah you really can you have the energy and you have the life

force to be able to do that But do you really need to And that's just

something that I think as we get older we that's the question that becomes a

more profound and more you know existential like do I need to do do I need

to put for this amount of resource or you know as one gets older as one

becomes more mature and has had more experience and work And in life we get

to understand that life has way more choices than maybe we thought when we were younger And so

that's again this aspect of being able to when we can kind of rise above or step back

and take that you know 60,000 ft view of uh what you know if life is transitory how can I

take the most advantage of that How can I enjoy it the most way What's what's

the way in which you know like when I always thought of when I left

a job I wish I had known how long it would take for me finding the new job Because

wouldn't that be really a nice way to experience a vacation in between our jobs But no

we're usually they're spreading away Oh my God I'm never going to find a job again

There are no jobs out there and actually you know here we are right now where there's

just such a plethora of jobs being offered but really no one wants to do those

sorts of things that have been done in the past And especially for the pay of how things

have been going on when everything in life is so expensive now And so here we're in another major

transition period And as this um we're we're really kind of going into a new generational

phase that we're kind of getting inklings about And it'll be interesting to see how

society deals with this next aspect of major transition on an individual level as well as how we handle it

on a collective level And and I think that's a really good point that we are not always just in

transition everything is always in transition So it's not just about the waves that we're surfing

There's a bunch of other surfers out with us and the waves are different in different

places And so yeah it's a I think it's it's learning like you said to ride those waves and

maybe learning how to enjoy the fall every once in a while and you pick yourself up and

you do it again And also it's funny because I'm thinking of this video I saw on

Instagram yesterday It was so hilarious because there were these two people that were doing these exercises and it

looks like these people are doing these like really strong push ups But then you see in the

background that the person's dogs walking and what is the wall Oh it's interesting It's this perspective of like oh

this person's just standing and pretending like they're really working hard to like inspire other people And

it's like huh you know it's just you don't always take how other people do

it You know everyone has their own relationship to how they go through transition And I think it's important to

really honor it And one part it's funny because one thing that's important about transition that I think is falling

even more away from our society now is the honoring of it through ritual We we do have power for

the newborns Um but the idea of funerals and memorials are really getting lighter and lighter and lighter

and the idea of of even putting an obituary where do you do an obituary for someone who's moved

you know 17 times over the course of their lives and where you know how do you honor someone

in that way How what do you do with the social media aspect of that individual What do you

do with their intellectual property that is spread across all this media Wow that is a really good point I

may have to talk about that Maybe at the beginning of the year we'll talk

about we'll talk about ritual I like it Rituals are very important I think it's something that the more that

we can engage in that it's an honoring of it And what's interesting right now for

this particular month in September is most of the planets except for two Mars and Venus

are in what we call a retrograde motion Meaning that from our vantage point here

on earth it appears that they're going backwards Of course we know none of the planet

orbit backwards in time But it's simply like when you're driving on the freeway and someone speeds up next

to you and you slow down it looks like you're really going backwards but you're really

not it's just you've slowed down but it's the view point But what this gives is this opportunity for all

these words that begin with re and so during this transition time it's really important to do those things Like

rest review reconsider revisit reconnoiter reconnect relax I love that That too Well thank you so

much for your time I have enjoyed this conversation I'm hoping to share it with others and um and if

you have any other extra thoughts that you think of afterwards I would love to

hear them Sounds great Thanks for having me on Chris Always a treat Thanks